Bullethead Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 While we're on the subject of tweaking how the game treats various types of tile, I'd like to suggest a tweak to rough tiles. I want to see contiguous rough tiles treated like other non-open terrain tiles, such as water, marsh, and woods. By this I mean I want adjacent rough tiles to blend together into 1 solid mass of rough terrain. At present, there is always a gap of clear terrain down the seam between 2 adjacent rough tiles. This enables vehicles to cross through the middle of large patches of rough terrain totally unimpeded. This in turn makes it impossible to use a band of rough tiles as blocking terrain for vehicles. Even if the player doesn't realize he can order vehicles through such bands, the AI does and will do so given the opportunity. Thus, to make a vehicle-proof barrier, you have to either make a steep slope or use some sort of impassable tile that blends with its contiguous fellows. But in many cases, these measures introduce inappropriate contour, LOS, and/or cover/concealment issues. IOW, only a wide patch of impassable rough will do. ------------------ -Bullethead In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maximus Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 Hmmm, never noticed this, are you sure? What does the texture on the tile have anything to do with the effect of the tile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tris Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 It isn't the texture on the tile but that when laid together the edges of rough tiles do not meld the way they would if the tiles were woods or tall pine. Rough tiles when laid leave a small border all around of clear terrain. Try it yourself. Run a row of rough tiles completely across a map, set some armor up on one side, then order the armor to the other side. The armor will have small difficulty finding the right paths. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted December 1, 2000 Share Posted December 1, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bullethead: Thus, to make a vehicle-proof barrier, you have to either make a steep slope or use some sort of impassable tile that blends with its contiguous fellows. But in many cases, these measures introduce inappropriate contour, LOS, and/or cover/concealment issues. IOW, only a wide patch of impassable rough will do. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Wouldn't marsh work? As far as LOS and concealment goes, it isn't that far off from rough. I do agree though, tanks shouldn't be able to move through a large rough field. As it is, rough is pretty much just an annoyance for tanks, not a serious barrier. Another tile tweak I'd like to see is getting rid of the gap between Woods and Tall Pines. I have managed to sneak tanks long distances through the gaps in the trees. Sure, scenario designers can use just one tree tile or the other, but that looks plain and boring. As it is, the only solution is to carefully edit maps to make sure there are no trails of open ground that can be used. ------------------ No one but the enemy will tell you what the enemy is going to do. No one but the enemy will ever teach you where you are weak. Only the enemy tells you where he is strong. And the rules of the game are what you can do to him and what you can stop him from doing to you. -Ender's Game [This message has been edited by 109 Gustav (edited 12-01-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted December 3, 2000 Author Share Posted December 3, 2000 109Gustav said: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Wouldn't marsh work? As far as LOS and concealment goes, it isn't that far off from rough. I do agree though, tanks shouldn't be able to move through a large rough field.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Sure, this would work except that in many cases it would be inappropriate to the landscape to use marsh for this purpose. For instance, you want a boulder-strewn slope. Or say the area SHOULD be an open, vehicle-proof slope but, due to the way CM handles the sloping of neighboring building and road tiles, it can't be without skewing contours in other areas of the map. A marsh in such locations would be incongruous. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Another tile tweak I'd like to see is getting rid of the gap between Woods and Tall Pines. I have managed to sneak tanks long distances through the gaps in the trees. Sure, scenario designers can use just one tree tile or the other, but that looks plain and boring.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> I disagree. I use this feature a lot to make very narrow, vehicle-capable trails through forests. The only time it leads to unexpected results is if you make long, continuous bands of different types of tree tiles, so there's the gap between them for the length of their common border. In such cases, you should use like 90-95% of 1 type of tree tile with just a random scattering of other types, with maybe some open ground thrown in as well. This way you get a nice, non-uniform visual effect, plus no unwanted trails from end to end. ------------------ -Bullethead In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted December 4, 2000 Share Posted December 4, 2000 I've changed it so that rough terrain tiles now abut so that they block vehicular traffic along shared edges. You'll see it in v1.1. Charles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
russellmz Posted December 4, 2000 Share Posted December 4, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: I've changed it so that rough terrain tiles now abut so that they block vehicular traffic along shared edges. You'll see it in v1.1. Charles<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> yay BTS! ------------------ "They had their chance- they have not lead!" - GW Bush "They had mechanical pencils- they have not...lead?" - Jon Stewart on The Daily Show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
109 Gustav Posted December 5, 2000 Share Posted December 5, 2000 Great work, BTS! <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Bullethead: I disagree. I use this feature a lot to make very narrow, vehicle-capable trails through forests. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> For trails, I usually use brush and scattered trees, at about a 4:1 ratio. It looks a lot like an overgrown road or power line right of way, even if it is a bit wide. It also slows movement better than open ground, which would be realistic for a trail. I agree, marsh is inappropriate for use on hillsides, but it was about the best workaround. Not anymore, though. ------------------ Well my skiff's a twenty dollar boat, And I hope to God she stays afloat. But if somehow my skiff goes down, I'll freeze to death before I drown. And pray my body will be found, Alaska salmon fishing, boys, Alaska salmon fishing. -Commercial fishing in Kodiak, Alaska [This message has been edited by 109 Gustav (edited 12-04-2000).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bullethead Posted December 6, 2000 Author Share Posted December 6, 2000 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: I've changed it so that rough terrain tiles now abut so that they block vehicular traffic along shared edges. You'll see it in v1.1. Charles<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks, Charles. ------------------ -Bullethead In wine there is wisdom, in beer there is strength, in water there is bacteria. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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