SPWAW, CM Panthers and Shermans and Game Mechanics

[sneaky]

Just finished my first go at VOT as the allies and was doing rather well when the panther appeared. Knowing I needed a good flank shot I got the 76 in place at 600m, two 75's at approx 120m, and a bazooka at 46m. All out of sight. However, I think he heard the rumble and took hull down position way back on the map (rather smart chap). I opened fire with the bazooka and brought the 76 up hull down and began firing, while speeding the 75's into flanking position. Within two minutes 3 Shermans and the bazooka were dead. Muttering under my breath at all the shell richochets and disintegrations on the hull of that beasty I sped my last Sherman (thought you got 5 as reinforcement but only received 4) up the road behind the house and crept a 105 into hull down below the Panther at approx 300m. My tactic was to draw fire to with the 105 and pop out and ding him with the 75 at flank or rear. Game ended after movement plot as that's all he had left and I guess it figured if the tanks didn't get him the engineers running up the hill would.

Now here's a question: without the manual or having paid attention to everyone here, I have had trouble executing what I like to term hide and seek, i.e., take the 76, run up the ridge to hull down, pop some rounds and then reverse. Is this possible in CM? Sequenced during movement orders phase? If not I am bummed because you then must commit inferior forces for the entire 60 seconds. Perhaps using delay with the order to shorten the time and then immediately reverse for next turn? I don't know, but the life expectancy of those Shermans was quite short when exposed to the Panther.

Wondering about the number of hits on that Panther (and not having CM to test with) I set up the same "situation" (or as close as possible), with SPWAW. Surprisingly, SPWAW operated quite close during 3 experiments. Learned: when you see a panther, Run Away! Run Away!

The interesting thing of course is:

1. The bazooka was fired upon by the panther in SPWAW. This is not possible, since the gun elevation as positioned in CM made it impossible for the Panther to attack the team. But boy was I disappointed that 4 hits from the bazooka did nothing in CM. Luck of the draw that game.

2. The sequencing of events in CM is interesting to watch. Sometimes timing is everything. I chuckled in the early part of the game as one of my 105's scooted down a hill, racing to get out of the sight of the 75 in the pillbox: by the time the gun aquired the target and let loose, the sherman had disappeared behind the trees and the round was about 3m behind the fleeing tank.

3. The 105 and 81 artillery for the americans is simply devastating.

This game reminds me of the old Yaquinto(sp?) games '88' and the like. Simultaneous movement, angle of shot, detailed penetration table (cards). This game makes this old wargamer quite pleased. Now if they would only build a TOE and terrain for the desert, early part of the war, and the russian front (my guess is that will be the next addon?).

Thanks BTS. Any help on how these commands interact and sequencing would help me manage my force better. Perhaps a key word for searching this archive?

David Hendrix

[Dar]

David:

In trying to simulate that combination of orders to move up, shoot a few rounds, and back off, I try timing my orders so that the tank moves up to a firing position near the end of the one-minute turn ("Hunt" into position). Then in the next order phase I can cancel any remaining "Hunt" order, and order it to Reverse, using the "Pause" command to delay it a little longer if I want it to engage longer. Or I'll reverse it right away and use "Smoke" if the situation suddenly turned bad (e.g., another enemy tank has joined the first and is shooting at my tank).

Additionally--I don't know if this helps, but I do it anyway--I'll order the unit to target the one I want it to engage as the unit moves up to firing position, even if the target is not in LOS. It's my way of saying, "Take on this guy when you can see him!" Of course, I have no idea if it helps...

Dar

[JohnH]

Hi Dar,

On my wish list for CM would be a "Hide and Seek" command that would tell a tank to advance until it sees something to shoot at, shoot, and then reverse in the direction it came from.

It is very awkward trying to sequence something like this with the commands rovided.

I also think it would be nice it your tank actually stoppped after finding something to shoot at using the "hunt" command. I hate it when my tank, moving with the hunt command, spots a juicy target only to track it for a second and then roll on by. That sounds more like a "move" command to me.

In any case these are minor points in a great game.

[sneaky]

Thanks Dar,

I've tried that last tactic as well. I think it prioritizes on it's own. I'll never forget that sinking feeling though when the Panther first appeared and the 76 was in position to see it prior to me reversing the next move phase. The 76 kept targeting some infantry down in the wood and I was actually yelling at the 76 on the screen that death was going to rain down if he didn't look up...I breathed a sigh of relief when the 60 seconds were up and one round had strayed wide right and short.

I'll try using the combo of moves suggested. That is, if I read you right:

1. Move into cover position.

2. Next turn, hunt to hull down, possibly introducing a delay based on length of exposure you wish.

3. Replay should give a good indication of next action.

4. Above will need to be adjusted each situation due to crew effectiveness, current suppression, command HQ, etc...

David

[Lorak]

Dar, having your unit target what you plan on firing at (even if it is out of LOS) really is a help.

example) your sherman has been shelling infantry for eons when you want to hunt up the hill for a flank shot on some german armor. If you pretarget the armor (out of LOS) your crew will begin changing ammo. This should put you ready to fire as soon as you do have LOS to the target. Only drawback is if you run into any soft targets before you get there, since you will have unloaded your HE ammo.

Lorak

P.S. make sure your unbuttoned when you go hunting up that hill. Or you may not spot that german armor before your turrent is blown off.

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Lorak's FTX for CM <--Proud member of the Combat Mission Webring

[Dar]

Lorak:

Oh, yeah! Thanks--that's a good point that the tank will start switching ammo.

David:

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of:

1. Move into exposed position near end of turn. Maybe get a round or two off.

2. (Next turn) Reverse back down out of sight, using a "Pause" or two if you want to do a little more shooting.

Of course, if there's a threatening situation, I'll reverse right away and hope that the tank manages to survive those (typically) 8 seconds before it responds! But I think the key here is to get your guy into firing position near the end of the turn so you can shoot-n-scoot right away in the next turn if necessary.

Dar

[Cannon Fodder]

Much as yourself I've often had my shermans picked off by the Panther like so many ducks in row. A good tatic I've found is to save some of my 105 arty for just such an emergency. Usually using the heavy guns I can at least make the Panther immobile if not better, like dead. It doesn't always work though, some times the Panther (or Panthers if your boasting the German defense) just won't stand still, or worse become immobile sitting on top of the hill, then you have a very armored, very angry bunker to deal with.

[sneaky]

Dar,

Right. Move into firing near end of turn. That was my "delay" line. Cover position is out of LOS but ready to move into firing position.

With the Shermans I just never can seem to rumble out in the open. I'm always looking for cover that has good sighting opportunities and can be supported by my other units.

David