Guest phoenix Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 I have now been playing the demo for oh hell, I dunno, 20 hours? In that time I have found nothing that I can really complain about. Except this WHY can't AFV's follow SIMPLE directions? Tonight I issued simply way points to a Tiger. Two way points, in OPEN ground. Move here, move there. Period. The turn opens and the tank begins this ballet of moves. Backwards, spin in place, turn right, turn left, etc etc. Huh? Yeah, so there were some scattered trees off to the left side, but WHY does the tank go through all this crap? I have experienced this over and over. It's VERY frustrating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 Damn, I made a big long post but i must have mistyped my password and it got lost. So here's the short version 1. You are almost certainly plotting a path SO close to an impassable terrain feature that the tank would have to pass through it since the wyapoint shows where the middle of the tank will pass and a tank is a WIDE object and if one tread touches woods then it reverses and tried to find a way around. I think you'll find its a case of human plotting error though. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 Do you play with FOW on or off? Was it early or late in the game? Was the tiger taking fire(morter/machinegun? Were bazookas nearby? Was the tiger buttoned up or not? Was the tiger alone or were your infantry ahead of it? Were other vehicles close by? Did you give it a move/movefast or hunt command? Did you give pause commands/facing commands? Are you sure the woods were scattered only? [This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 11-05-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phoenix Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 >Do you play with FOW on or off? ON, of course!! >Was it early or late in the game? Early. >Was the tiger taking fire(morter/machinegun? >Were bazookas nearby? Was the tiger buttoned >up or not? Were other vehicles close by? >Did you give pause commands/facing commands? >Are you sure the woods were scattered only? Taking NO fire. No bazookas around, not buttoned, no vehicles, no pause or facing commands, and YES, I am sure the ONLY woods nearby were scattered. Jeeeze, this was in OPEN terrain. And it's not the first time. I mean HOW picky is the AI when I choose a path that says OPEN terrain? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest PeterNZ Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 I only had that problem once. After the first time i simply avoided plotting my tanks too close to trees, and i've not had a problem since. Why not try that? PeterNZ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 Phoenix, Do you have an autosave of it? Send it to me or recreate it and let me have a look. I should be able to explain it or spot a bug. Either way yo win. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Richard Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 Fionn you made a SHORT post? Are you feeling okay . *runaway runaway Sir Robin...* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phoenix Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 Peter, the reason I want to manuever /around trees is I want to keep my precious tank HIDDEN from the bad 88 on the hill!!! Fionn, I don't know what you are referring to about the "autosave". How do I do that? I'll try to recreate it tonight. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 Richard, LOL. It's been known to happen.. {Phoenix.. after something like that happens "esc" CM and look in the CM directory. There is a file called autosave. Send me that. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 I believe Fionn is correct here. Only time that I've witnessed this kind of behavior in moving AFV's is when I'm trying to manuever them near woods and/or through scattered trees. It's rather interesting when it happens because it will go and add all kinds of waypoints to my units movement path that I certainly didn't order the unit to follow. So far, when this occurs I just go and delete all of them during the next orders phase and try to give the unit some simpler orders, like get the heck out / away from the woods a slight distance and then move to where I wanted them to go. This seems to get rid of the "problem". Other than that, I've not had any problems having AFV's follow their ordered movement paths. Mike D aka Mikester Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 I have noticed my opponent AI doing this quite a bit in the first several turns of the Last Defence game. I can watch as the shermans go forward in one dirrectoin only to reverse the next turn...not sure if this is a pathing or tactical AI issue. Just to clarify, none of my units has fired at all and I am sure none of my units has been spotte yet. ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard [This message has been edited by Scott Clinton (edited 11-05-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted November 5, 1999 Share Posted November 5, 1999 You must mean the Reisberg scenario... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 Phoenix, no slight intended here but it is "user error". You are plotting a path too close to the woods with too few waypoints. There is no penalty for waypoints, so if you want to make a REALLY delicate path, you can, by using more points. You can not expect the vehicle to know what your intentions are. Computers can not read minds If it drives along the route that you plotted for it, bumps into impassible terrain, it *must* take evasive action. There is *no* other option for it. A blocked path is a blocked path. So the best advice is to plot further away or use more wayponts to make sure you aren't cutting the corner of a woods tile. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phoenix Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 Ok, Steve, I can accept that it may be user error, but I don't understand something. You say I may be using too few waypoints.. How many do I need? I mean if the cursor says "open ground" while I drag it along my intended path, why do I have to set another way point? Won't the AFV follow the line between the way points??? If the path says it's "open ground", then is it, or isn't it? I'll try again, making LOTS of waypoints and see what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 Uh, pheonix, it's not the path that is open ground, it's the end point. I could drag my move line stright through a building to the other side and get an open ground display. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 Lokesa gets a Gold Star for that one You can plot a path through a forest and over a cliff and across a river with no bridges, and the end point would still register the terrain that it is being plotted on. It would be nice if we could give you some warning that your path is cutting through some impassible terrain, but it is not that easy for us to code such a thing AND have it not affect the UI responsiveness on mid to lower end systems. This is definately something we can address with the next version. So for now, look at the terrain the line between two points intersects. If the edge of a house, Woods, Swamp, etc. look to be in the path, then shift one way point or the other so that it isn't. Or you can use more waypoints to plot around the obsitcal. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Lokesa Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 Something that helps me plot move orders for vehicles through hectic terrain is to use the shift+c command to change the size of the units to realistic (unmagnified). This give me a better perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 Try this: 1. Plot the path with a couple of gross manuver waypoints well spaced from the terrain. 2. Zoom in, and set size to actual. 3. Adjust the waypoints with a right click and drag to what you think are good tolerances. Works for me. I routed a Tiger "just so" through town in the Last Defense to nail that last pesky Hellcat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 Steve: Someone mentioned before about a more contrasting color scheme for Woods and blocking terrain. It would sure make it easier to see the exact edge of the 'woods' in this type of plotting. As it is now I always feel like I am NOT quite close enough to get all the cover the nearest 'woods' can give me...unit my tank starts to reverse that is. ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest phoenix Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 After trying this again and again tonight I see what the problem is. And yes, it's my "fault" for not being PERFECT with my plotting of a path. I still don't like it though. I have to agree with Scott here. A more clear definition of what is "woods" and what is "open" (or whatever) would help a lot. Anyway, it's not that it's ruining the game or anything, but it can get very frustrating to think that I am moving my tank through cover and end up watching it move around in ridiculous ballet moves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 Phoenix sent me an autosave of this... Quite simply the LEFT half of the tank was trying to move through woods as it "cut a corner". If he'd moved his tank 2 metres right it would have simply motored through without hitting the woods but in the file he sent me I just looked at the waypoints and they were so close to the wood (like right on the edge of the tile) that there was no way a tank was going to make the turn there (especially since part of your plotted move did actually impinge on the wooded terrain. Give a little more space and it'll be allright. On a related note: the AI turned into the woods, reversed and then under AI replotting influence moved through scattered woods and was well on the way to getting where he wanted to go. For the record its not a matter of "PERFECTLY" plotting your moves but of not sending a tank into woods or not making it do a left turn when it's left side is 50 cm from the woods and the wood still extends a couple of metres in front of you. Hope that helps ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 I had a problem with half of a StuG driving into the woods because my plot line was too close to it. It was my very first game so I just chalked it up to inexperience. Now I just need to remember that the movement line isn't as wide as the vehicle that is being plotted for. I think some of the problems people bring up here wrt the interface would make good points to be included in the manual. Jason [This message has been edited by guachi (edited 11-06-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 6, 1999 Share Posted November 6, 1999 Jason, I agree with you. Actually I assume Steve is keeping an eye out for what is causing people trouble and making a list for the manual. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 7, 1999 Share Posted November 7, 1999 We are playing around with brighter grass textures, which very much solve the contrast problem with woods tiles. Looks pretty good so far. We'll most likely be changing over to something lighter than we have now. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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