wileyveteran Posted October 25, 1999 Share Posted October 25, 1999 how close is it to ASL? i have not had an opponent for ASL in years and really need one. if this game is very close to it, then im going to buy it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted October 25, 1999 Share Posted October 25, 1999 I'll just say this, time to unlearn. You'll see what I mean. Welcome aboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted October 25, 1999 Share Posted October 25, 1999 ASL: I placed a Track counter in this hex for that squad when they moved out of the woods during your movement phase. I also have Maj Kirov here with his MMG, -3 DRM, that squad was moving in the open, -1 DRM, so if we put them back there, with X firepower points and this -4 DRM, he has a 3 in 12 chance of a KIA on the whole squad. Yeah, I'll go for it. (first resolve THIS attack) Darn, missed! Next I'll use the squad in the adjacent building to fire at them next. (resolve THIS attack) CM: If I have Maj Kirov fire at the squad in the woods, it might suppress them and keep them there this turn. They'll probably go to ground, maybe break them if I'm really lucky. I think I'll set an ambush point in the open with the squad next door in case they make it through the MMG file. Plot everyone else's moves/attacks. (resolve THIS TURN) [This message has been edited by Herr Oberst (edited 10-25-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Los Posted October 25, 1999 Share Posted October 25, 1999 Not to besmirch (sp?) ASL since it seems to have provided much inspiration to many here and maybe even to the birth of this product, but much of the detail work you have to do in ASL, is abstracted (accurately) in CM. So you don't have to do stuff like expend points (there are no points) to clear building, recon adjacent locations, track residual FP, rally troops, stipulate the firing of panzerfuasts inherent to squads (and DCs?) designate Fire lanes or RFP, and about a 100 pages of other stuff. The squads figure out and do a lot of stuf on their own once you point them in the right direction, hwere as in ASL you have to be the squad leader AND the company commander for everybody.Hope that helps. Given in that context you don't really have to unlearn very much since it's stuff you don't have to do in this game, though unlearning comes more from thing slike Hey! in ASL the 45mmLL can penetrate the side armor of a T34 at 400 meters, what the heck? (just making that example up). Los P.s. just in case it's unnoticed I'm trying to avert a flame war similar to what we just went through with HPS! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest L Tankersley Posted October 25, 1999 Share Posted October 25, 1999 Beyond the similarities in subject matter and approximate scope (e.g. maneuver units of squads, teams and vehicles) CM is not really very much like ASL in terms of mechanics [although CM had its genesis as Computer Squad Leader]. There are no phases (well, except for the orders phase/action phase), no alternation of turns (igo/ugo), and no hexes. Many of the things that ASL treats very abstractly (for various reasons including playability) are explicitly modeled in CM. That being said, I've always thought that ASL did a very good job of providing the "flavor" of being a WWII unit commander given the constraints and abstractions of the boardgaming environment. I think that CM will do an even better job of providing flavor and of immersing the player in the computer environment. BTW, wiley, if you don't have any handy ASL opponents I suggest you check out VASL (Virtual ASL), a Java program for Mac and PC that provides you with the boards, counters, and networking capability to play ASL over the internet - see http://vasl.thegamers.net for info and download. There's a server that the program connects to with a basic chat client that allows you to meet, set up, and play. Leland J. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wileyveteran Posted October 25, 1999 Author Share Posted October 25, 1999 Atten HUT! thanks for all the very fast replys. i will most definately enjoy this game im sure. Herr Oberst: AWESOME user id. wish i would have though of it first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rdreyer Posted October 25, 1999 Share Posted October 25, 1999 Herr Oberst writes: "ASL: I placed a Track counter in this hex for that squad when they moved out of the woods during your movement phase. I also have Maj Kirov here with his MMG, -3 DRM, that squad was moving in the open, -1 DRM, so if we put them back there, with X firepower points and this -4 DRM, he has a 3 in 12 chance of a KIA on the whole squad. Yeah, I'll go for it. (first resolve THIS attack) Darn, missed! Next I'll use the squad in the adjacent building to fire at them next. (resolve THIS attack)" Sorry but that's not ASL, but SL. ASL doesn't use "track counters", defensive fire is resolved on the spot against moving targets. In ASL, squads can also break, get pinned etc. Of course this doesn't change what you're pointing out: the superiority of CM's system of simultaneous resolution of orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Herr Oberst Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Just goes to show how long ago it was that I played SL... Oh jeez, I just checked my old rules books (yes I do still have them, counters, boards, etc) Squad Leader, 2nd Edition Cross of Iron, 2nd Edition Crescendo of Doom GI: Anvil of Victory I just remember being really pissed at AH for making me invest in a whole new, full set of rule books, or "chapters" to go in a 3-ring binder when ASL came out. Wow, now I feel really old... [This message has been edited by Herr Oberst (edited 10-25-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 My theory: i) if you are a good ASL player, and you're good because you are a rules lawyer, you'll justly die a horrible and painful death in CM. ii) if you are a good ASL player, and you're good because you've learned how to use fire and manuever with WWII resources, you'll stomp a lot of opponenets flat in CM. The mechanics are quite different, but sound tactics are sound tactics. I expect that, once they've adjusted to the CM mechanics, serious ASL players will do very well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Well said Rocky (and Los too!). That is the point of our phrase "Unlearn". Anything gamey that could be done in ASL (or any other game for that matter) to cause positive friendly results has been pounced on by us to the best of our abilities. The result is that in CM you win based on merrit and/or sheer luck, not cheap moves and being better at math than the other guy. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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