tgra Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Sure this has been asked before but I can't find it. How would I co-ordinate an attack such as... Tank is moving from A to B to C. When it gets to 'B' I want some Infantry to move to 'D'. So, 60 seconds starts. After 30 seconds Tank reaches 'B'. How would I get the Infantry to move? Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 tgra - there are "pause" commands that you can use to delay the movement of your infantry. So what you would need to do is to set the infantry on pause for 30 sec and issue a movement order to "D". Needless to say, there are no guarantees that they will indeed make it on time to the designated spot. There are those guys in grey uniforms and strange shaped helmets that make this difficult sometimes... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 OR, from my perspective, guys in khaki sitting around drinking tea or chewing gum... ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerShark Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 You encountered John Travolta in CM Fion? Talking about details wwoooohhoooooo....can't wait to shoot him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Travolta is on The List. But Elvis is in and working... made some pretty nasty flanking maneuvers on my cut-off force recently, singing "in the Ghetto"... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PanzerShark Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Moon, i don't know Elvis well, but i think you just made a typo. It's not "In the Ghetto" but "In the Gestapo". I know because he wrote it just after "Black suede Boots" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 LOL.. You all got it wrong. The supreme commander of all SS units in the game is rigged to be "von Klinkerhoffen" and his ADC is "von Smallhausen".. They gain a "limping bonus".. Hi to all Allo Allo fans out there .. As for the Elvis unit.> Well unfortunately the logistics drain on your supply lines are so great that you get to choose between one Elvis unit or 1 company of Shermans or 1 platoon of King Tigers. The Cruise unit is excellent for dazzling enemy gunners with his beaming smile and sparkling endless conversations about whether he is or isn't ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgra Posted October 26, 1999 Author Share Posted October 26, 1999 Can one of the supplied scenarios be 'Take this town and hold it until the picture of the Madonna with the big boobies is smuggled out'. Obviously we wouldn't want the picture to be abstracted in CM. Preferably using any spare polygons and the 'depth' feature as much as possible. Seriously though... Can you say to Infantry, for example, don't move until, or unless, another unit has reached point 'D'? This would make 'bounding' easier to co-ordinate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Blue (Black) Suede Shoes was written by Carl Perkins. Elvis gets enough credit already. Pixman ------------------ Fact is the enemy of truth. - Don Quixote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Tom punkrawk Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Madonna?!Let the germs have it, have to save the picture of Alissa Milano with "the'nice' boobies!" ------------------ We ain't got no place to go,let's go to a punk rawk show Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Tgra, No there's no linking of movement orders to waypoints reached by other units. That isn't a problem though since a little common sense, experience of movements rates and use of the "pause" command which institutes a 15 second delay to any command issued will get that organised for you. One thing though. When doing overwatch etc be prepared to think in terms of minutes and not seconds. I think some people are thinking in terms of seconds. Warfare in WW2 did move a bit slower than it does today and you will find yourself moving one platoon to a position and halting it for 3 or 4 minutes to cover the advance of another unit onto the next point and repeating. Reorganisation halts and many such things are also necessary as you hit your phase lines. I'd read up some histories of British infantry and tank assaults in France to learn more about phase lines as the British loved phase lines and always seem to mention= them in their battle commentaries. Martin and I both use phase lines in CM for ALL things now. Previously I never had much use for mental phase lines but now I never plan an attack or defence without picturing phase lines. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tgra Posted October 26, 1999 Author Share Posted October 26, 1999 Fionn... You're right about me having timescale problems. It just seems very strange not to have to 'rush' when there are only 60 turns (60 minutes) to advance, batter, get battered, defend etc. To have a unit move for a minute then not advance for 5 minutes takes a tenth of their combat time. I'm sure it works out OK but, again 'cos CM is a new 'breed' (to me) it's hard to visualise (and, by god, I've tried to visualise playing this game countless bloody times you lucky goit). Cheers Tony Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Scott Clinton Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 I tend to get the impression that coordinating the movement of various different types of units in various different types of terrain all conduction different missions may be difficult to master in CM. Hmmmm...Like it really was perhaps? I can recall MANY first person accounts of attacks and movements that did not come-off EXACTLY the way as planned and this mistiming made a huge difference in the outcome of the battle. Funny thing is, I have no problem performing this type of coordinated movement in a turn-based game. ------------------ The Grumbling Grognard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Phase lines and jumping off points are the answer. You will start locating jumping off points and looking for concealed spots just behind them where your forces can filter in and re-organise ready for the assault. E.g. In one recent game I took a little over 10 minutes to advance two platoons and two tanks down a road towards a village. Why? because I wanted to ensure my forces came to each likely ambush point in good order and in a mutually-supporting fashion. Also, units in CM (infantry units at least) rarely have enough ammo for huge long firefights. 10 to 15 minutes of heavy combat is all they are good for. I guess it basically comes down to the fact that the "tempo" in many other games is plain wrong. You see lots of continual attacking with perfect co-ordination or just aimless rushing forward paying off. I challenge anyone to carry off a succesful attack without implementing adequate re-organisation halts . ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 tgra: Battles can be 120 minutes long in CM, so there is more time available than you might think. But it seems unlikely that that much time would be needed for your typical battle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Ssnake Posted October 26, 1999 Share Posted October 26, 1999 Fionn, You damn sure are right. When being an operator in some SIRA simulators of the Bundeswehr (considerable abstraction, but highly accurate timescale and perfect FOW), there always was one observation above all others: It takes MUCH more time than you initially thought. Many battalion commanders expect their whole Bn start moving just a mere 5 minutes after issúing orders to their company leaders, and when, after 35 minutes, the first tanks start rolling, they're ready for medical treatment, heh-heh-heh... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 LOL. Yes I always remember a section in "Red Storm Rising" by Tom Clancy in which the Soviet General leading the coup at the end of the book orders a division commander to unload his troops from a train and drive them through Moscow. Clancy has a brilliant line whereby the General orders them to move out in like 10 minutes but a few lines later he says something about "30 minutes later the shouting was down to platoon and squad level". I think that captured the essence of moving units very well . LOTS of layers of command to be traversed before your order becomes enacted. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tss Posted October 27, 1999 Share Posted October 27, 1999 I think that captured the essence of moving units very well. LOTS of layers of command to be traversed before your order becomes enacted. And in worst case each layer misunderstands the orders... One of the worst examples of that was the battle of Poltava in 1708 (yup, a long before WWII) where the Swedish plan was to use surprise factor to bypass a fort-line, regroup, and attack the Russian camp. However, General-Major Roos misunderstood his orders and ordered his troops to take the fort-line. In the end one third of the Swedish infantry was bled white while trying to capture well defended and alert forts (the surprise failed because forming up took too much time) without any necessary equipment. Of the 2000 men in his command only 80 survived the day and most of them were wounded. (They kept attacking the forts until the casualty level reached about 50%, became separated from the rest of army, fought a series of small combats, and ended up being encircled in an old monastery). Meanwhile, the main army almost succeeded in breaking through the Russian line-of-battle but they failed when the attack lost its momentum. With Roos's 2000 men they might have succeeded. The result was the worst defeat in Swedish history and the end of Sweden's position as a major European country. - Tommi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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