Donan Posted October 14, 1999 Share Posted October 14, 1999 First, one of the many cool things I see in the AAR's, previews etc. is the percent hit on an object. But I would like to know if there will be any weapon charts 'on-line' or in the manual. I started boardgaming in 1970 and of course migrated to computer gaming asap. But one game really taught me weapon comparisons against each other, that was Tobruk. I was able to not only see from the multitude charts the 'real' gun/armour etc. factors at different distances (this includes armour and infantry weapons), but the percentages of success. This gave me a real feel for all the weapons. So even tho' CM will give that aspect within the game, when trying to set-up your forces to those you 'think' or know are to your front, it would be nice to be able to refer to such charts. Sure, I probably have some books or something around that I might be able to use, but it be more handy (and of course 'stats' do change from one publications to another, so it would be nice to see what the designers are using) to have it 'on hand' with the game. Donald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Preacher Posted October 14, 1999 Share Posted October 14, 1999 There was a discussion on this already. Look in the topic entitled "Under The Hood." I think you'll find what you're looking for there. Preacher Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donan Posted October 14, 1999 Author Share Posted October 14, 1999 O.K. Thanks Preacher. I'll look around. Donald Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 14, 1999 Share Posted October 14, 1999 Donan, The in-game vehicle/ weapons data which can be called up by selecting the unit and hitting "Enter" gives you the penetrations of the various rounds for that weapon at various ranges and slopes of armour. Using that and a quick look at which enemy tank ur facing (also using the enter button to call up it's armour thicknesses and slopes) it becomes very simple to see exactly what kind of over or underpenetrations you are likely to get. If you don't want to get all mathematical then just drag the target cursor over the enemy and it will tell you the range to target, if it is hull-down or not, what your chance of hitting is and what your chance of killing if you get a hit is. It's all very accessible and easy to use in-game. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Donan Posted October 14, 1999 Author Share Posted October 14, 1999 Sounds great (of course!) Fionn. Thanks! Donald p.s. I guess too, upon reflection, there is alot of this type of information in the editor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 15, 1999 Share Posted October 15, 1999 Yeah, the volume of data is pretty darned huge. All the info you really need is in the game at your finger tips. In the editor you can access the same info as in the game, but only in Preview mode. Generally, scenario design is the place where you need this info least. You shoud make a scenario based on likely forces, not which can shoot up which at whatever and this and that For example, I am making a scenario right now where I am just tossing down the two most common US vehicles for that period of war and some standard German stuff. However, when PLAYING the game I need info when I run into something. As Fionn pointed out, the best way is to use the Target cursor. Gives you the best info in the quickest way. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian Rock Posted October 16, 1999 Share Posted October 16, 1999 Would there be any merit in an optional "advanced" setting that didnt' give % to hit or to kill? Reasons for: 1) real crews didn't have computer working these things out for them 2) it would add another level of challenge/difficulty 3) it would make it easier/more likely for units to take low PK shots (there is some anecdotal evidence this was relatively common - eg Shermans engaging Panthers at long ranges where they couldn't penetrate) Reasons against: 1) The current system abstractly represents the crews/soldiers experience/estimation of chances for hitting and killing 2) it makes the game easier for people who haven't memorized the chance to hit/kill for every weapon fielded in the war 3) it keeps players from wasting shots in low PK situations As you can see, the reasons against this are pretty much the converse of the reasons for.It seems as much a design philosophy issue as anything else. Comments? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 16, 1999 Share Posted October 16, 1999 When in doubt, go with what is more playable as a game. However, in this case I think it is a no brainer in favor of the % info. Not only does it make the game easier to play, but it does simulate battlefield knowledge... I select my Sherman and then put the cursor over a King Tiger. It says "Chance of hit 15%". Now, how the heck am I, the player, supposed to know what that particular tank, at that particluar spot, with that particular weapon has for a chance of hitting that particular target in that particular terrain with a certain range of things inbetween? This stuff is so highly variable that there is no way the player can understand what the tank commander would know. Guess? Sure, and that is basically the same thing as the % displayed. Then the likely kill factor. Nobody is going to be able to memorize every combo there is. However, that tank commander would have a decent hunch about the chance of causing harm to a wide range of enemy vehicles. Now, don't forget, if the enemy vehicle is not ID'd, or ID'd correctly, even your tank commander isn't going to have a very good idea what is what. As for the tactic of hoping to keep a larger armored vehicle off balance by hitting it with harmless rounds... this is a valid tactic open to both the TacAI and the human player. The display of this information doesn't change that. I know that a crappy Sherman M4A1 (75) can't do squat to a King Tiger's front unless I get REALLY lucky. But I regullarly fire at it to at least keep it occupied. I don't care that I have no chance of penetrating it. In fact, I just did this with a King Tiger not 10 minutes ago Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted October 16, 1999 Share Posted October 16, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>But I regullarly fire at it to at least keep it occupied. I don't care that I have no chance of penetrating it<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> If the shell hit close enough, would pieces inside the German tank break and fly around , even if there was no penetration? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 17, 1999 Share Posted October 17, 1999 Non-penetrating hits can cause casualties and even knock the vehicle out due to some major damage. If you hit a King Tiger in the turret side with something like a 105mm HE round it is likely that the KT won't be doing much damage to you any more I have even read stories of turrets being litterally ripped off by powerful hits. I have also seen armor shattered on Panthers and PzIVs, possibly by an AP round but could also have been from a bomb or artillery round scoring a direct hit. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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