Guest L Tankersley Posted September 7, 1999 Share Posted September 7, 1999 I just read a blurb about CC4 that says a new, encrypted binary file structure will be used to make it more difficult to hack the game data. While I suppose this is intended as a feature to make cheating more difficult, I expect that many on this forum will consider it a design flaw. L. Tankersley Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dar Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 Roger that. I bought CC3 on sight after being so impressed by the first two. Will I buy CC4 on sight? HA! Not until I read at least 738 glowing reviews (and if I can find the money and strength after playing CM so much I lose my job and forget to eat). Dar Steckelberg Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
K L Sparrow Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 My guess is that they are encrypting because of the slating they got over CC3, with quite a few weapon inaccuracies in the database. Anyway, it does look interesting, but its down the pan for user created mods and stuff, which is what adds to the replayability of the CC series... A bit off topic I guess... Kevin ------------------ Road to Moscow: http://www.wargamer.com/rtm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 LOL.. Oh, I'll never tire of discussion of CC IIIs issues (as you'll remember from the furore at The Wargamer Kevin) Making the database impenetrable is simply being done so they can't be questioned about errors in it.. Anyone who does question any errors will be told "It is 100% correct in the database. You don't have access to the database so all your complaints have no backing in fact and NO we won't give you access to the database so you can prove we made errors." Someone save that paragraph cause I guarantee you all it will be posted (almost word for word) on usenet and other places when CCIV comes under fire. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Moon Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 Hmmm... so after CC3 got whacked because of "inaccuracies", they now say that with CC4 they will "encrypt" their database better? Am I missing something or should the "normal" reaction be to make the database more open in CC4 so that people can see that the programmers fixed their stuff? As it looks to me right now, the message they're getting across is: "CC4 is going to be the same [sELF-CENSORED], but this time we're going to hide it better." Oh boy... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thomas Davie Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 People can (and should) speak for themselves re: CC 1/2/3. I generally hate RTS games with a passion, although I am starting to make an exception for Age of Empires/ Age of Empires 2, and CC 1/2/3. Sure there's going to be inaccuracies in the database for CC4. Ever see a game that was perfect? It *will* be hacked. Guaranteed. Combat Mission will likely contain some small imperfections as well, however my money says that Battlefront will be more open to correcting any errors that can be demonstrated to exist. Ah well, minor soapbox mode off. Tom Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest KwazyDog Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 Unfortunately its not a guaranteed fact it will be Thomas. Without help from atomic (which is, well umm, rare ), and if they encrypt it, it would be next to impossible to 'hack'. I wrote the map editor for CC3, and if they encode the map data into another file format from their statnd txt format, I certainly wont be converting it to work with CC4, its just too time consuming Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mike D Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 The only "design flaw" in CC3 is that there are inaccuracies and outright errors in it to begin with. Having the database open simply allowed every hack and his brothers uncle to try and "fix" things which accomplished little IMHO other than to make a bigger mess (I know there are those out there that would take offense to this statement and or vehemently disagree with it, but hey it's my opionion and nothing more so don't get all bent out of shape any of you CC fans out there, OK? ). Bottom line is if they first of all are going to continue to have inaccurate data in the CC4 database as in the previoius games and secondly are not going to commit themselves to fixing the problems once they've been "identified", then it doesn't matter much whether the database is open/unencrypted vs. closed/encryted because the game will be WRONG either way! Personally, I don't plan on even looking at CC4 after my experiences with the first 3 games. I simply look at them as the bridge that got me to the point where a game like CM came along. Now that it will soon be out there is little point to me wasting any more of my precious gaming time, or money, on "lesser wargames". Like I've said, CM will in all liklihood be keeping me busy for quite some time after I get hold of it. Therefore, the need for any other "wannabe" tactical wargames on my computer in the near future is going to be ZERO. Mike D aka Mikester [This message has been edited by Mike D (edited 09-07-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 I happen to know for a fact that most of the errors which were in the released version of the game were spotted and commented upon by the beta testers and others prior to the x-mas before it was released. Those errors were present in the release version because no-one bothered to change the data even if it was clearly erroneous. I don't think there's anything wrong with an encrypted system per se since CM has the data encrypted to prevent hacking and multiple, conflicting mods springing up everywhere. However, I think encrypting files simply so no-one can challenge your data (which is probably flawed in many areas) is a major issue. Steve and Charles have made clear that IF there's a good reason to change something then it will be changed.. All you need to do is look at what happened with reserves and fanaticism. Board members lobbied for them both, were initially resisted a bit BUT once they'd proved their points in it went. Can you name me a time that Atomic made such changes so willingly? I didn't think so. now, with that history in mind can there be any real doubt over why the database is encrypted? I don't think so. Hell, I heard it was going to be encrypted several months ago when CC IV was first announced and was told it was in direct response to the furore caused by CC IIIs errors. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rick Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 I think it's a good thing that Steve and Charles resist some. This causes the ideas to get kicked around a lot and by the time they decide to put them in, they've heard many view points and much data. Therefore, the feature is at a highly refined state when they put it in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Fox Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 Good point Rick. Nicer to think that we have been refining ideas by kicking them around. I was thinking that I was just being bloody minded and argumentative Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 Hehe... well Simon, at least you have points to argue, instead of just arguing for the sake of it Rick's point is a good one. We listen, but WE must decide what will work and what won't. Between Charles and I we have 12 years of active game development under our belts. What gamers sometimes don't understand is that making games and playing games are two different things. Kinda like watching a movie and making a movie. You think you could do a better job, but just try it I've made movies and they were a pain in the butt to make! There is an old saying -> be careful what you wish for because you just might get it (implication is that you might not like it either ). There was a Simpson's episode where Homer was put in charge of car design in order to make the ULTIMATE manly vehicle. When he was done the car company went out of business because nobody wanted to so much as look at the ugly beast. Lesson here is that there are a lot of good ideas out there. Some are top notch as is, some are diamonds in the rough, others are marginal, and a decent chunk just won't work no matter how much effort is put into it. Our job is to tell which ones are which, figure out which of those are good for the game/reality, THEN figure out if/when/how they will be added. Yup, lots of work. Just look at the time stamps on our posts if you don't believe me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pixman Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 Time stamps on posts -- no kidding! Are either of you guys married? If so, how long do you think that will last?! Steve, great commentary you just gave in the wee hours of the morning. It chimes right along with a response I gave a couple of days ago about why I will never stop giving ideas. If you guys did not have the experience and discipline that you so eloquently espoused, then I might hold back some and urge others to do so as well. But, since you are so good at separating the rams from the sheep, there is little downside to throwing the whole herd at you. A wealth of ideas combined with a clear vision is a damned powerful combination. ------------------ The enchanter may confuse the outcome, but the effort remains sublime. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 Yeah, it's nice to know that whatever may happen to be suggested that Charles and Steve will only put in the stuff that will benefit the realism and/or gameplay (but generally not gameplay at the expense of realism) of CM. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted September 8, 1999 Share Posted September 8, 1999 Yup, I'm married, but nope, the wife ain't too happy with the hours But she she shares the vision so cuts me a lot of slack. So I'm safe Charles is not married, but close to it, and his woman is equally not happy, but equally cool with the need. So don't you worry about the game being stuck in divorce court Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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