BLACKHORSE_C16 Posted November 24, 1999 Share Posted November 24, 1999 Hello to all, This is my first post here and would like say first that BTS seems to be onto something good here. I was steered to this demo by SS_Panzerleader. He was right, this is a great game. It took me about three games to get into it. It’s probably to late for comments and wishlist stuff but here are a few comments. These are the most fit infantryman I have ever seen and I have been hanging around infantry, cavalry, and armor for the last 17 years. It seems the “game tactic” for this game will be the 200M sprint from the deployment zone for the “best position.” After running are the marksmanship proficiency numbers dropped at all? This is one of the biggest factors in dismounted warfare. The more energy used to run takes away from the energy one will need on the objective in the next 30 to 60 minutes. I think this to be especially true for a game model at your scale. Dead grunts. Will there be any corpses left behind in a kill zone. It seems now that if a squad dies they just disappear. It would be nice to see at least one representative body to let followers on that it is not safe here. Sounds piddly but in real life the bodies tell a story for the next yahoo in the slot. Does the game engine give any allowance to an attacking force for its momentum of attack, it can be quite demoralizing to a defender. Will there be snipers? I don’t mean to sound crass when I say this. A little comment to all with this “fairness thing” in war games. If you want fairness play chess. It is not the prettiest thing to look at but it is the root of all strategy games and the all time king. Doctrinally speaking NO ONE starts a fight without a 3 to 1 advantage. All other engagements are avoided if at all possible or contact is broken with most haste in the interest of self preservation. He who chooses his battlefield and lures his enemy into it usually wins. That being said I use this for an example. I played (I think) Last Def the one with 3 m18 for reinf. I left the units in the developers start positions. Anyway I played and prayed for those 3 M18’s finally they show, and what did bone head do, forgot to give them orders befor pressing the magic button. Guess what happened, like I have to tell you, 3 smokey M18’s on wheat. HeHe. So I moved out like the scout I am and proceeded to hold off the Germans to a stale mate. The only German vehicles I killed were two HT’s, really one was abandoned. The Germans never made any farther than the woodline across from initial postion. THERE IS NO FAIR, ONLY SUPERIOR TACTICS, SITUATIONAL AWARENESS, KNOWLEDGE OF YOUR ENEMY AND A LITTLE LUCK. Don’t take the wrong way I am not bragging, just an example. In real life that would be a success, I completed my mission. For more info on armor and tactics poke around here: http://knox-www.army.mil/armorlinks.htm Interesting links http://knox-www.army.mil/dtdd/armormag/ Check out the tactical vignettes http://knox-www.army.mil/museum/ Patton Museum (US Army Museum of Cavalry and Armor) Enjoy the info on these sites and hope to play some of you. Bye! ------------------ Allons!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest John Maragoudakis Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 1. http://knox-www.army.mil/armorlinks.htm 2. http://knox-www.army.mil/dtdd/armormag/ 3. http://knox-www.army.mil/museum/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 1. Yes, if your infantry are tired or weary then they DO perform worse in combat and need to rest to recover. Personally I find 100 metres about the maximum practical running distance. I once did a 400 metre sprint and by the end of it my guys could only walk (they became weary which means they can't run anymore) and couldn't hit a barn door. Try it out in a scenario. it's fun to watch 2. Actually the global morale system works well in that sense. I've found that, in larger battles, (which non beta testers don't have access to of course) once let's say my left flank company is wiped out and I try to fall back my whole position often becomes untenable as the enemy advance forces kill more of my men as I retreat, my global morale plumets, I begin to lose squads to panic and generally end up feeling like I've been run over by a steamroller. In CM once the enemy penetrates into a position you'll find that disengaging is terribly difficult due to the combination of flanking fires, low morale, pinned and panicked friendly units and the momentum of the AI's advance which rushes you when it sees your position collapsing. 3. There are sharpshooters yes. 4. I fully agree regarding real life commanders wanting to engage n as favourable terms as possible but these were just "show-off" scenarios which were designed to have people be able to PBEM against eachother with fairly equal chances of success. I think there are some scenarios made for the game which are pretty darned impossible to survive hehe ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 Hello there! Fionn pretty much covered all your questions, save the bodies one. Big, hairy topic that has been covered more times than it should have been All I can say is that we have heard all the arguments pro and con and have made our decision for now. We are open to looking at this issue after CM1 hits the streets. The Global Morale thing is subtle in that you don't get direct feedback that your forces are not happy with the situation, but that is the beauty of it. Say you are the attacker and lose a significant percentage of your starting force. You will keep telling your men to do something, and slowly you might figure out that their heart really isn't in it, so you switch to more conservative tactics, only to find out that you basically have to call it quits. I've had that happen to me. My attack didn't go horribly, but also didn't sweep the enemy off the map either. Ammo gets low, casualties mount, units become less effective, and I decide to try one more thing. And if that fails... time to ask for a cease fire Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BDW Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 re: bodies has anyone proposed simple, little red blood stains? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 Yes, these things have all been gone into in huge length in many BIG, BIG threads . Red stains have issues too and also there's a question over their legality in Germany. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hough Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 How about little tombstones, like the Custer battlefield memorial? -John Hough Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
John Hough Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 Btw, I realized that part of the problem with infantry running so much is how small the maps are. With larger maps, running for a couple turns, then resting for a turn or two doesn't get you the advantage it does with these small maps, and is possibly less efficient for general movement than move. But with maps this size, running for the first two minutes to get the jump on the good positions seems to be the best thing to do... -John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
guachi Posted November 25, 1999 Share Posted November 25, 1999 What I find better than running is plotting long movement orders on the first turn. If they don't turn out to be good orders they can always be cancelled. If they do work out you have saved time. You only have one time delay instead of several, which is especially useful with low quality/out of contact squads. Jason [This message has been edited by guachi (edited 11-25-99).] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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