MG Fire

[Ken Talley]

Hi Steve,

How will CM handle machinegun grazing fire and long range beaten zones of fire? I understand that CM will track trajectories of larger calibre projectiles thus handling the lines of fire. But machineguns can impact units within large areas of their lines of fire also. I couldn't determine the answer from the FAQ.

Thanks,

Ken

[Guest Big Time Software]

Team MMG/HMG units will have grazing fire effects. So if there are 3 enemy units in a line (front to back), and you shoot at the rear one, the first two will probably at the very least keep their heads down. At the most they will take a couple of casualties.

Steve

[Moon]

Don't want to be nitpicking here, but what happens if I shoot at the front one? Will the squads behind it get their "share"? (Small difference at first sight, but if "no" is the answer it means that small arms fire doesn't get tracked... AHA! )

And on a side note: will MG teams "produce" more tracers than rifle teams?

[Guest Big Time Software]

Well, you are right that small arms fire is not being "tracked". We explained why this is earlier, but it is basically a speed thing. The game would need a super computer to track every unit's fire MG fire is the one exception to small arms not being tracked.

I can't say if the rear unit would get hit if aiming at the first unit. Makes sense to some degree, but range would have a bearing on this. The closer the aim point, the less distance stray rounds will go. Standard physics of aiming.

We are not simulating tracers per se. However, an MG will be much easier to spot in part because of this and other factors.

Steve

[Moon]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>The closer the aim point, the less distance stray rounds will go. Standard physics of aiming.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Of course! Dang... (what was that blushing face sign again?)

How about suppression fire then? Can I assign my MG team an area to fire into rather than a single target? Do I understand right that in order to cover, say, a whole treeline with suppressive fire, I would have to issue two or three fire orders to my MG team?

[Guest John Maragoudakis]

"The closer the aim point, the less distance stray rounds will go. Standard physics of aiming."

Ahh but the aiming point is not always close. If the three squads are close to you in relation to the distance between the squads the aim point will hit the closest squad. The three squads could be far from you. The farther out the three squads are, the more that they will seem like they are at the same aiming point. In which case bullets should be flying through everyone in the vicinity.

[Moon]

You are right as well, John. And to be 100% correct, grazing fire (which was the initial question) is not aimed at all by definition. Instead it means that the MG operator is laying a continuous fire about 3 feet above the ground without really aiming for anything, just sweeping an area. Of course you could simulate this (if the other player is silly enough to put a few squads in open view lined up behind each other) by simply aiming for the last squad or even BEHIND the last squad. It may be a game limitation, but I guess one can live with it very well.

[Guest John Maragoudakis]

"if the other player is silly enough to put a few squads in open view lined up behind each other"

WW1, le Somme, allied units get mowed down by German machinegun fire. Don't think that machine gunner was aiming. He was grazing away steadily.

Now surely the allies learned from thier mistakes. That only means that they wouldn't put themselves in the same situation on purpose(DDay is an exception I guess). Any unit from any army can always be caught with thier pants down. If thier pants is not down, put your self in position and pull it down for them.

[This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 03-11-99).]

[This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 03-11-99).]

[Guest John Maragoudakis]

"by simply aiming for the last squad or even BEHIND the last squad. It may be a game limitation, but I guess one can live with it very well."

Yes that's a good way around it for the player, however will the units recognize a grazing fire oppurtunity on thier own? In otherwords if a couple of enemy squads pop into view of your machine gunner during the execution phase, will that gunner switch to grazing fire to take advantage of the bunched up squads or will the machinegunner aim for the closest squad?

PS if grazing fire is included, can Big Time have the squads fall in order as the fire sweeps accross them? I want the enemy player to understand that it was machinegun fire that came this way.

[This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 03-11-99).]

[Guest Big Time Software]

Grazing fire will be included for sure. It will be able to hit any and all units within a certain arc from the MG. This includes units in front of, or behind, designated targets.

An MG team will automatically try to hit as many units as possible if left without a designated target. However, if you specify an individual target to go after, that is all that will be shot at. Of course anybody that gets in the line of fire could be hit by "accident".

Units will fall to the ground whenever the feel it necessary to do so. This may or may not be in the order that they receive grazing fire. Order depends on many variable factors.

Steve

[Guest John Maragoudakis]

Fantastic!

"Units will fall to the ground whenever they feel it necessary to do so."

When I said fall to the ground, I didn't mean voluntary. I meant that a burst of MG fire rippling accross a couple of squads would topple individual soldiers like dominoes as the fire sweeps across them. Of course there could be soldiers left standing. I am suggesting that the ones that do fall(stricken), go down as the fire sweeps accross the squads. (like dominoes).

[This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 03-12-99).]

[Guest Big Time Software]

Remember that we don't have figures fall to the ground dead, and no bodies are left either. If an MG raked a bunch of units, and caused casualties, the hit units would visually react no different than any other type of hit. One figure jerks back with an "agh" sound, then the unit does what it feels it should do (hit the dirt, turn around and run, etc.).

You have to keep in mind that CM's system is designed to AVOID special casing situations, like the MG grazing fire effects you suggested. The range of unit behavior (actions and reactions) are fluid enough to make things realistic instead of having long lists of:

IF in_fire = mg_fire THEN drop_ground ELSE keep_moving

So when I said "units will fall to the ground whenever they feel it necessary to do so" I meant that a unit will do whatever voluntary/involuntary, correct/incorrect, action for the given situation automatically, no special casing. If this means the unit hits the dirt as the MG fire sweeps across it, that is one possible (and likely) outcome. But a unit might run to cover or drop to the ground BEFORE actually hit by the fire. So you might see "dominos", you might not. All depends

Steve

[This message has been edited by Big Time Software (edited 03-12-99).]

[Guest John Maragoudakis]

I see what you mean when you say that each unit is not represented individually. Since one soldier on screen represents more than one soldier in the game, then you can't see the hit soldiers dissapearing individually as the fire rakes accross them. That's fine.

[This message has been edited by John Maragoudakis (edited 03-12-99).]