Bil Hardenberger Posted October 20, 1999 Share Posted October 20, 1999 Me: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>...being notified of their arrival during the orders phase before they come on the map. They would then arrive and drive on during the TAC AI phase(or whatever it's called)immediately following. A commander would at least have that much notice they were in his sector. And probably more notice than that in reality(i.e. he would see them or hear their engines, have radio contact with them, etc).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Steve: <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Bil, great suggestion. Although generally having your guys pop up isn't a problem this is a good idea for the future. No time to do it now though as it would take quite a bit of coding to get it to work.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> After thinking about this I have to say, How hard would it be? All you have to do is place the reserves RIGHT on the map edge of where they enter (hopefully, a road)is this much different than how it works now? Other than being one phase earlier... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 20, 1999 Share Posted October 20, 1999 Bil, at this point EVERYTHING is hard, simply because we have no time left to try major things like this. I say major because it is entirely different than what has been used up until this point. This could introduce code problems at the very least, but also ones of play balancing. Your idea is still a good one, but Charles and I think "as is" it needs work. We don't have time to spend on that now, especially because the problems of reserves coming in is minimal in fact. Plus, all your system does is have the guys "appear" already on the move. This isn't a large difference from the way it is now, even for Conscripts (40 second delay). Again, a good idea, but it is one that isn't fleshed out and not something we can just slap in before the game ships. The system works fine now, though not perfectly, and therefore isn't as important to mess with at this late stage. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Justin Hoerter Posted October 21, 1999 Share Posted October 21, 1999 As a bit of an interim solution, perhaps shielding (LOS-wise) the entry point may help a bit. A little bit of cleverness in scenario design may allow for a small copse of trees to cover the road where units enter. This would help alleviate the problem of not knowing reinforcements are arriving, then seeing them burst onto the map in enemy gun sights. While not appropriate for all scenarios (ie exact historical reproductions), it might be a solution until something could be worked out for the next release. Another small consequence is a bit more map at the edge to allow for covering terrain. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 21, 1999 Author Share Posted October 21, 1999 Okay, sorry. I understand that you guys are getting to the end and have an agenda that you need to stick with. How much control over placement of Reserves does the scenario designer currently have? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 21, 1999 Share Posted October 21, 1999 Bil, TOTAL control. You control where and when they come in.. For anyone who is worried about this I simply say make a couple of dozen metres of woods just the map edge nd have them enter there. They'll be hidden from enemy view by the woods and that'll make everyone happy I think Ps. In my current game the US has gotten reinforcements but I never saw them till they started filtering into the frontline.. The AAR scenario was an extreme example IMO. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 21, 1999 Share Posted October 21, 1999 No problem Bil Fionn is correct of course. I also regret pushing the reinfrocement thing to the extreme for the first big public display. Although not perfect (you would have to simplute another 500m of map and a whole nother battle!) I think it worked out pretty well in fact. *IF* Fionn had left some guys guarding that side of the map (there was a platoon there by default), and he hadn't gotten clobbered by artillery, there might have been a nice little battle at close quarters, which wouldn't be all that unrealistic. If I had to do it all over again I would have given the Germans a heads up in the intro text displayed at the beginning of the sceanrio. Would have said something like "The Americans have broke into the Western part of the town and are closing in on the Eastern half. Watch your back". Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 21, 1999 Author Share Posted October 21, 1999 So, correct me if I'm wrong... but with what you say we will have FULL CONTROL over where the reinforcements come on... We can just have them come on at the map edge right? Wouldn't that be basically the same thing as I suggested? They wouldn't appear in the middle of a formation... that was my main concern. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 21, 1999 Share Posted October 21, 1999 Bil, You are correct.. You could have them come from a map edge AND elsewhere. E.g. Want to roleplay that a village to the east (on-map) of the current village has a Panzergrenadier platoon with HTs which tumbles out of bed as the US attack goes in against friendly forces? Well, simply set a reinforcement marker in that town set to activate after maybe 5 minutes of the game and 5 minutes into the game an armoured Panzergrenadier platoon will appear there. get them to board the HTs and roar off to help the defenders of the other town. This simulates the time needed to alert these troops, wake them and get them out of their billets. The editor is VERY flexible and there are a lot of very interesting ways in which some thought on how to use its flexibility can help you create scenarios other games simply can't create using their editors. ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 21, 1999 Author Share Posted October 21, 1999 Thanks Fionn. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Big Time Software Posted October 21, 1999 Share Posted October 21, 1999 Bil, the only limitation is that the designer must plan around where the other side is likely going to be at the given turn. In the AAR game I knew that Fionn would most likely be in the big block of buildings by that time. So I had Martin's stuff come in on the edge right behind it (to simulate them coming through town). This worked fine mechanically in the game, but I really should have given Fionn a heads up. In Fionn's example (above) you would have to make sure that the Allied forces woudln't get to that reinforcement spot BEFORE the 5 minutes passed. Otherwise you would have troops teleporting into a formation (like you are concerned about). So the closer you put reinforcement areas to likely enemy positions, the more care you have to take. In a game I just cooked up I went with the normal (as in 95% of the time) syste of reserves entering from behind friendly lines on the opposite map edges. Steve Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bil Hardenberger Posted October 21, 1999 Author Share Posted October 21, 1999 <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>you would have to make sure that the Allied forces woudln't get to that reinforcement spot BEFORE the 5 minutes passed. Otherwise you would have troops teleporting into a formation<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Wouldn't a better solution be; if an enemy unit has control of a reserves entry location, then the reserves get delayed? Or not come on the map at all? Note: I am not asking for this to be implemented I am just prolonging the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 21, 1999 Share Posted October 21, 1999 Steve, Just remember, if you ever want to make up for that REALLY rude shock then all you need to give me is a platoon of JagdTiger's in the next H2H with Martin. I don't ask for much, just a little heavy armour ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fionn Posted October 21, 1999 Share Posted October 21, 1999 The BEST solution (for maximum flexibility) is to leave it in the scenario designer's hands. The designer's job is to decide on these factors. I can certainly conceive of some situations in which it would be realistic and gripping to "teleport" units into the enemy rear to simulate breakthroughs on their flanks mid-battle etc which would be destroyed by a "coded" solution. In other words leave it to the designers. They can use the current system to do some cool things which any coded solution will destroy. Rely on the rating system at TGN's scenario depot to allow you to tell the chaff from the wheat . ------------------ ___________ Fionn Kelly Manager of Historical Research, The Gamers Net - Gaming for Gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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