Sherman, second hand, rarely used...

[Moon]

Say that a couple of Tigers just appeared on both flanks, my overwatching tanks got knocked out and the way back is only a clear grass field? In an ongoing campaign, my priority would be to get that tank crew out of there as soon as possible and safe them for the next battle. By having them bail out they would not be the main target of the Tigers anymore (hopefully) and therefore might just make it back. So the question - can I order the crew to abandon their vehicle and bail out deliberately?

IF so, could I then order another crew (or the same one) to come back and re-enter the tank? The question is also valid for immobilized vehicles where the crew bailed out previously.

One last thing: in a german book about Wittman the tank ace I have just recently read about an incident where he singlehandedly took out 12 Shermans. In the book it says: "Wittman's tank was too close to the armored column for the Sherman shells to penetrate the Tiger".

WHAT?

Is the guy who wrote the book on drugs... or is it me?

[Fionn]

Hmm Moon, I think you are talking about Villers Bocage so if you are they were actually Cromwells (plus assorted half-tracks etc) and what the author MEANT to say was that the BRITISH tanks were packed so close together that they could not deploy to counter the threat from their flank which Wittman's Tiger represented thus Wittman was able to defeat them in detail and isolation while they were unable to manouvre in co-ordination or in an effective manner.

I think the author's grammar must be at fault since what he meant to say was that the British tanks were too close to EACHOTHER to manouvre effectively in response to Wittman's movements.

P.s. The Germans lost two Tigers in the incident and had to retreat since only 1 Tiger and 1 Pz IV were left to them. By the time the British recovered however the guts of a Schwere Panzer Kompanie were present.

[Rhet]

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>IF so, could I then order another crew (or the same one) to come back and re-enter the tank? The question is also valid for immobilized vehicles where the crew bailed out previously.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Moon, if your men did this, the vehicle in question would most likely be appropriated by the Gerries. It was pretty standard practice in WWII to permently disable a vehicle that had to abandoned. One way to permently screw up a tank was to drain the oil from the recoil dampers and fire the main gun (from a distance of course). This would shatter the gun mount and possibly dislodge the turret. The tank was pretty much useless after this.

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Rhet

[Guest Big Time Software]

Moon,

CM doesn't allow intentional bail-outs from an undamaged vehicle. However, and I think this is pretty cool, in campaigns, the fate of knocked-out or immobilized-and-abandoned tanks is not over at the end of that one battle. First, the survival of the crew is tracked. If at least part of the crew escapes, then the game looks further...

At the next night turn, depending on how the force is rated for "recovery skill", the tank may be dragged off the map and repaired (or at least another tank of the same type substituted). There may be a delay of a few battles before the replacement tank arrives.

However! Any tank that catches fire (or whose crew is entirely killed or captured either in or out of the vehicle) cannot be recovered. So it's critical to keep bailed crews alive and not use them as so much cannon fodder. Same goes for any tank that's abandoned in ground that is later taken by the enemy. It's assumed the enemy troops disable the tank.

CM allows the real-life tactic (most often used by the Germans) of continuing to pump shells into a knocked-out tank for the SOLE purpose of making it burn so it cannot be recovered and repaired. And since recovered tanks can return to a later battle in the campaign, this can become important.

Charles

[Dan]

This is Good. It was the germans SOP to fire on allied tanks untill they caught fire so that they would be unusable. When a Tank catches on fire it gravley weakens the armor, so that even if you recover it you could not expect it to take any kind of hits agian.

[This message has been edited by Dan (edited 05-18-99).]

[Guest Big Time Software]

Charles forgot to mention that it was also SOP for Allied tankers as well. Since shots against German tanks didn't penetrate all that well, the Allied tanker couldn't be sure they killed it unless the tank was on fire. This is why you see pics of a Panther with 4 or 5 good hits, several of which were penetrations. I think the US crews nicknamed this "knocking to see if anybody was home".

Steve