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stealthsilent1

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Posts posted by stealthsilent1

    What exactly is the hide command

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    Yes, it is, up to a point. The first point is the sanitisation thing. War is hard, dirty, scary and messy and CM can only give us a glimpse (or reminder for those of our communtiy who've been there) of that reality. The second point is the one you're running up against: technology. The desktops of today simply aren't up (in general) to rendering the detail you're diving into. The third point is simple playability. If every micro action of every pTruppe had to be controlled by you, the game would be significantly less fun. These last two are handled by the abstraction layer.You've now got all the information you need to be able to go about finding your own SOP for your battlefield eyes in the CM game. That might not be exactly RW procedure, but it'll be close enough for government work.

    whats SOP and what's RW? Also, youre 100% right, that's the same thing I say.
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    What exactly is the hide command

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    Hide isn't something Scouts get to use much, becauase they're supposed to be looking out and Hide curtails such activity. And still the specifics of what Hide means "IRL" are irrelevant. Gets down. Stays down (mostly). Does everything possible to remain unseen. That's the best description you'll get and the best level at which to consider the order. Anything else is either obvious (being behind a bush helps) or below the abstraction layer. If your pTruppe is behind a bush, not Hiding, he'll pop his head up more often, be more likely to return fire (even a Target Arc isn't an ironclad guarantee the grunt won't feel threatened enough to shoot, but a Hide command is stronger inhibition still) than if he had a Hide order. If he's behind a bush, whatever tactical posture he's in, he gets some concealment.Scouts should be given short, circular "self-defense" Target Arcs. They should move Slow in the last part of the concealment from where they're hoping to see without being seen. If they Hide when they are supposed to be looking, they will only see the bleedin' obvious. Knowing how the terrain influences concealment is far more important for scouting than knowing what the Hide command does, because scouts should only Hide to evade fire, generally.You are overthinking the game. It has limitations.

    i just wanted to understand what my men are doing, why they are doing, and how are they are doing what they are doing, I just want to understand.
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    What is the point of an unmounted hmg on the modern battlefield?

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    When you construct a fortified area that you plan to occupy for a an extended period, fixed HMGs are very useful.  I'm not sure what you are speaking on though, weapons squads in infantry platoons aren't assigned and don't carry 12.7mm MGs.  I carried  AGS-17 around the mountains for a time.  I am not interested in doing that again.

    dude you carried the whole thing? Or did you break it apart and carry it with your buds? I went with 10 pounds in the mountains and my shoulders ached.
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    What is the point of an unmounted hmg on the modern battlefield?

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    Because .50BMG is longer ranged and harder-hitting. The same reason you put Ma Deuce on vehicles rather than a rifle-calibre MG. Sure, the extra weight is going to be a consideration, but the 125lb is breakable into humpable loads, if you're setting up a Sangar on the ridges to shoot downwards onto Hind flying along the valleys in the mountains of Afghanistan, for example. An emplaced HMG in MOUT will render many apparently safe positions from which to fire on the bunker not nearly as safe as they would have been if an MMG were in it's place.

    I never thought of it that way, different people moving different parts, I thought they just carried the whole thing. Yea, I mean, it depends on the situation. If there aren't any bunkers I'd just go for something lighter.
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    What exactly is the hide command

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    You know, you both are right. I just got crazy with obsessing about useless junk. I just need to look at the bigger picture. But isn't that what Cm about? Making real war on the computer? I mean, the whole point of projectile warfare is whether you could see the guy or not, so I really wanted to know if I could hide behind a bush when I'm in the mountains, will my stupid troops do it too? I just really. Really don't want my scouts to be found out. Because that's 2 units each time they get ambushed, thats a lot of men. That's like, half my men. I need to know what's on the other side so I don't die.

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    What exactly is the hide command

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    In the end, it doesn't matter one jot or tittle what "Hide" actually translates to in terms of troop activity "in real life". Unless you're trying to point a finger and say "Not a perfect simulation! Rubbissshhhhh!"What matters is that the unit will go prone, for whatever benefit the situation offeres, the spotting of the unit is degraded and that its ability to remain unseen is improved if it wasn't being observed when it Hid, or if its new, fixed, low posture puts it behind 100% concealment. It's about the "tactical posture" of the unit. If they're told to Hide, then that's their priority, and what they actually do on a micro level, beyond the scale of the animation you see on-screen is an abstraction. Just like the "terrain saving throw" that means you can watch a burst of fire pass right through the chest of a pTruppe and yet he survives unscathed. It's below the "abstraction layer" and you do not need to worry about it. Use your imagination to think what might be present at the sub-metre scale that can't be represented in the game for technical reasons.

    because that's my favorite thing to do, to use my imagination. So when they are in the hide command, they hide better than normal. For some strange reason, like putting mud on their face. But that still doesn't answer the question. I like to peek out and see when I'm hiding and not be blind. Why are they blind? Also changing the camera to make it to eye level of infantary and tanks at all stances would be good.
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    What exactly is the hide command

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    Considering that the trajectory of every round is tracked in game, yes, 6 inches matters. :)

     

    And it seems that you're confusing the game with reality. In reality, yes, it's possible that someone hiding can still see a particular area. In game, the guys HIDEing are looking at the mud. The occasional guy(s) SPOTTING may not see anything because spotting runs in cycles and the moment they're looking may not coincide with the spotting cycle. ( note - this is only an educated guess ).

     

    I don't pretend to understand it, but there are game limitations and so things may be a bit more black-and-white wrt seeing and not seeing than reality where there's a lot more wiggle-room.

    Well that's my whole point, change it so that they aren't looking at the mud, that's stupid.

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    What exactly is the hide command

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted · Edited by stealthsilent1

    Nope. I'm pointing out hiding in bushes/woods/forests is not as effective in modern combat as you might think due to the prevalence of thermal imaging devices.

    The 'hide' command in CM means the unit keeps their heads down - although at odd occasions someone in the unit will pop their head up for a quick look. It comes at the cost of situational awareness.

    TBH I hardly use it as it can often backfire on you due to the loss of situational awareness. I prefer target arcs. BTW the manual explains all this in detail.

    Which manual?

    And I'm not talking about the time period of what you can use and what you can't, I'm talking about what's modeled in the game. Maybe in the future we will have super X-ray scopes that can make you see through building walls, does that mean that you don't have to understand how to hide in buildings, no. Forget the modern setting, let's call it cmbn, it really doesn't matter. But what is modeled in this game?

    Also, I always use target arcs when I'm hiding

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    What exactly is the hide command

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    Hiding(in a building): all men are prone, but 2 men at a time are occasional looking through the windows

    That's assuming that they do look out the windows, and don't just lay on the ground of the building, occasionally looking at the walls.

    I think the game does not simulate this at all, since it uses 3d models to accurately represent projectile motions, I think that the hiding command is directly related to how and where the 3d models are in the game, if the soldier is in a bush, then there is some sort of modifeier that tells the opponent not to see him, and if he is hiding, there is a bonus modifier to his invisibility. So if a soldier is at a window, he is not hiding himself as much as possible, he is just standing clear in front of the window for everyone to see. Okay, that makes more sense. You see if we knew what they game was really about then we would be able to make better strategies.

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    What exactly is the hide command

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    Well, hide will make them *stay* prone, and the spotting is done by one or two guys at a time, whilst the rest keep their heads down.

    ok so

    Not hiding(in a building): all men are at the windows and looking forward

    Hiding(in a building): all men are prone, but 2 men at a time are occasional looking through the windows

    I mean, let's say they are 50% as effective as a two man scout team in a building, they should still see people, seeing no one doesn't make any sense.

    Yea but that example doesn't work when you're in the bush, what are you doing when it says "hiding?" Are you intentionally looking at the dirt? And when it blinks back to "spotting," do they move their faces from the dirt to right I front of them, it doesn't make any sense.

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    What exactly is the hide command

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    Ok I understand that looking for 2 seconds at a time is not as good as always looking, yea, but it's not to the point where the guys can't see what's directly in front of them. Also, if what you're saying is true and the guys put their faces in the mud, for some reason, instead of looking forward, why can't they look to the sides, where their flank is. If they aren't looking forward, they must at least look to their sides. But the hide command makes them as if they were blind.

    But what if they are in a bush, you can't hide more than you're already hiding if you're in a bush, for this example I'm talking about a light bush, think of a desert bush. It's got little dead twigs sticking out and you can kinda see through it, even when you're prone. See how can you hide, when you're already hiding?

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    What exactly is the hide command

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    Hide ( in game terms/effects ) means that the unit will lie flat. One ( or sometimes 2 ) guys will look around occasionally ( hence the occasional guy "Spotting" ).

    Overall spotting for the team is severely degraded.

     

    This is good - as mentioned - for sitting out artillery barrages and otherwise keeping a lot of your guys unspotted by the enemy.

     

    Troops not on HIDE may well be lying flat, but they will all be Spotting ie. head up at least. On less than flat ground, they will often "take a knee".

    Ok let's assume that the ground is flat and you're behind a bush, prone. What does it matter if you're hiding or not, your head 6 inches above the ground is really small, I don't think it really matters. Also, everyone spots once in a while, not just two guys.

    0

    Bullet accuracy

    in Combat Mission Battle for Normandy

    Posted

    I have a couple of questions to throw out there!

     

    Saw this on another discussion forum and wondered:

     

    The general accuracy of the troops is completely bonkers, which really restricts your ability to perform maneuvers. In todays warzones, UK soldiers expend an estimated 8000 rounds per kill, that’s 7999 rounds that fail to neutralize your target. You can compare that to the mechanics of Shock Force, where the rounds are very much on target as soon as you show your face.

     

    Possibly not a new subject for discussion, I know. Does anyone have a perspective on this assertion based upon the changes to the latest CM engine? I'm wondering about how accuracy is modelled and if, as they claim, digital soldiers take too many casualties per rounds fired? I guess he's suggesting that suppression should be increased/hits reduced?

     

    I'm also planning my first AAR. Greatly looking forward to getting the ball rolling as it'll be The Road to Montbourg which I've only previously played the first three mission of. Making a detailed AAR is something of an undertaking - what with work/family/life commitments - and I want to have fun doing it. Therefore I'd be interested in hearing hearing of other forum member's self-imposed rules, restrictions, must-dos, etc which either enhance the realism or enjoyment of their gameplay. I'm fully aware that certain personality types slap themselves for each lost soldier :)  , whilst others never reload a save, never raise the camera higher than eye-level, and other things. Personally I'm simply not reloading but the camera height idea is interesting/hardcore.

    Forget "realism," it's stupid, the world would play out in a billion different ways, and it would still be realistic, what does it matter what specific weapon is used, what does it matter how people do things outside the game, they could be doing it differently if they had different weapons or different situation. Do anything it takes to win with the resources you have on hand. That's as real as you can get. Who the hell puts restrictions on how you should play? I use the camera to my advantage, I bring it down to know where to put my troops, I trick my opponent, I do anything it takes to win. You got to detach yourself from everything that's not unconditional, this game is basically chess, once you learn how not to get shot, it's turns into, all about, what your opponent is thinking, and if you could predict that, just outthink him, and you've won.

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    What exactly is the hide command

    in Combat Mission Black Sea

    Posted

    The following might be tangential, but shrug. In terms of actual usage hide is useful for a number of things, but it's a little counter intuitive. In open ground, it makes the pixeltruppen hit the dirt immediately, which can be very useful, and similarly it keeps their heads down in foxholes and trenches, which reduces mortar casualties significantly. Hiding troops will pop up to spot a little, but mostly they keep themselves down and therefore out of line of sight, as much as possible.

    In terms of laying ambushes, you're usually better hiding with the majority of your force, but leaving a scout or sniper team (possibly at range) unhidden, even if these have a restrictive firing arc so they won't give away their position. These scouts can spot the enemy, and then you can unhide your forces to enact aggression upon whomever you wish.

    I've long thought that a combination of Hide + Target arc might be good for an "ambush" command, if the logic worked that way - they will break hide if they feel they really need to, but if this was how they treated this combination of orders that would seem sensible to me. 

    In any case, small units of stationary infantry in cover are usually pretty hard to see, just relying on target arcs - so Hide is usually not necessary unless you're trying to avoid being shelled.

    Ok so to hide on open ground is a bad idea, you're just a sitting duck, you need something to hide behind, that's like if the open ground is bushy, then it's a good idea to prone on the ground, but if you're in a parking lot. It would be stupid to just stay there where everyone can see you and shoot you.

    Ok I agree with the hiding in foxholes because of artillery. That just makes you go deeper into the hole, but when they look out. How are they looking? Moving up to see past the dirt? Or are they just looking at the dirt?

    Yea and I agree with the ambush thing you said, that's true, but you still didn't adress what the post was about. What's the difference between just laying down in a bush, and hiding behind a bush? Also when they peek and spot, I think they should actually look above, or in between, or whatever they are hiding in, and look at the opponent.

    I think how it should be modeled is that when you put your troops behind something, they find a place which they could cover most of their body in, and just a fraction of their body would be out to shoot the guys. And if they are hiding behind a solid object, they would look above or to the side of the object to see the opponent. And if it's a bush they are hiding in, how I would hide in a light bush, is I would go as low as possible and look through the open parts. And if it's a thick bush, I would poke little holes in the bush where I can see them, but it's almost impossible for them to see me. So the hide command doesnt work with bushes. I mean with hedgerows it's easy, just get all the way behind the hedge, and part the hedge a fraction, everytime I wanted to look at my opponent.

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