animalshadow
-
Posts
62 -
Joined
-
Last visited
Posts posted by animalshadow
-
-
As you can see, your "normal" hull down position has the thermal sight covered, which would cause all sorts of issues with operation of vehicle.
Again, if any vehicle in the game can achieve a perfect hull down position (such that the sensors and weapon system are only just barely exposed) then it is simply coincidence.
Would cause if Kriz didn't have radar.
Target can be light up by radar and target can be shot using only radar and 9M123-2 is a radar guided ATGM missile.
It's like saying that F-15 can't use AIM-120C in BVR engagement cause pilot can't see target by his own eyes.
By the way...if we're talking about ATGM missiles - why supersonic missiles( 9M123 for example) can be intercepted by APS?
-
I just did a test using a kriza from a full hull down positon.
Take the editor, make a 2 points different berm, place the kriza slightly over the first slope and you got yourself a hull down. My kriza managed to spot and target an M1 hiding behind his smoke cover.
Here, take a look:
You will need 250m to get a line of sight, or, if you need a shorter one, make the tank climb the ramp a bit.
Berm...Have you seen such hills?
Most of the time you have -1 offset, but lot of times you can achieve -2 offset.
Check this(-2 offset):
Test scenario: http://www.filedropper.com/krizpos
2nd Tank Destroyer on -2 offset terrain in "Slightly up" position, can be shot by anything.
1st Tank Destroyer on -1 offset terrain in "Hull-down" position, can be shot by anything.
1st Platoon HQ on -2 offset terrain in normal, as intended, Hull-down position.
-
2km everything regular etc atgms in light forest with 1 tree per tile
ATGMs kill M1: 3
Gap between respotting and getting shots off too big -> APS and M1 killed ATGMs in return: 17
better ratio than with the Kh-S (who in the same situation killed 1 and died 19 times often without even spotting)
only works if you can find a spot where the enemy Tac AI will likely not just drive straight backwards
obviously I never said this is supposed to be the end-all APS M1s solution, it's very situational but if there's a spot on a map where it might work it is better to put 2 ATGMs on it than a Kh-S, that was all I was trying to find out.
I've so far tried to cope with M1s by using cheap atgms to spook some and then drive an overwhelming force of T-90s against the rest of them also more at mines here and there
Nice tests
Had close to your results when was trying to test Khriz effectiveness.
Just had a thought. CM already has saving throws it uses for infantry to represent micro relief and other factors not explicitly modeled in the game, right? What if BFC gave mast mounted weapons and sensor platforms substantial-high (fuzzy logic) saving throws when attacked, representing the cover they should have in the first place? I'd think this would greatly improve the combat effectiveness of Kriz, LRAS and other goodies which are, from what I can see, altogether too easy to spot and kill. Were this doable (may or may not be) I'd expect that LRAS would actually be able, with its powerful optics, to make a real contribution to seeing the battlefield, as opposed to being an excellent target. We've already been over the Kriz. And isn't there a TOW Hammerhead version of the Stryker? Doesn't it suffer from the same limitation as the Kriz? How does the game treat the TOW launchers on the Bradley? Is the Bradley also affected by the elevated weapon problem?
Regards,
John Kettler
Didn't try, but it's a little bit another story, cause the main thing is that on Khriz there's also a radar which is above gunner sight and while radar and ATGM are above ground Khriz should be ok with spotting and shooting.
For example Sturm-S doesn't have radar, but it's ATGM in the same hull-down position will be above ground, but it can't shoot cause there's no sight and/or camera on the same level and that's ok.
So Bradley while have gunner sight above ground should be able to spot/shoot.
-
How is it "broken"?
It's not "all-weather" as said in Game Manual("The 9P157 is equipped with thermals, advanced optics, and a millimeter wave band radar system that allowsit to detect and track targets through any weather and obscurants such as smoke." p.107) and it can't spot/shoot from hull-down position as intended. -
What will be if there's a platoon of M1A2(APS)?You'll field 6 AT-14 teams?
What about 2 platoons? You'll spend all your QB points on AT-14 teams and will be rushing to victory with'em?
What will happen if your opponent will decide to buy just infantry - "just for fun". You'll be fighting with AT-14 Battalion-size forces?
By the way, if in our case M1A2 (practically any target) will be in woods ATGM shots will likely miss(http://community.battlefront.com/topic/118381-bug-report-atgm-misses-almost-all-rockets-trying-to-hit-target-in-the-woods/).
So it's looking like a nice solution in tests when you put one M1A2 on the open field and your 2 ATGM teams in good position.
In Medium QB US Army can field 6 M1A2(APS) with infantry and artillery support.
And 12 elite AT-14 teams will cost you ~2000pts, while Regular ATGM Battery(9x Khrizantemas) will cost you ~1500pts/4k rarity and you only need Platoon(3x Khrizantemas) which will cost you ~500pts/700 rarity.
I'm trying to say that while US Army have M1A2(APS)(Hopefully prices for APS version will be revised in 1.02 ) and Khrizantema is broken, red team chances are very low.
-
Probably should shouldnt I.
In any case dont use Khrizantema. Use Kornet troops instead. Its more often you get the chance to use the Kornet more effectively because of its shorter effective range and the fact that you can get more easily hideable Kornet troops than one big, fragile, and easily spotted Khrizantema.
Sadly there's no alternative for Khrizantema - it's the only one ATGM which can kill Abrams with APS.
And Khrizantema is broken for now
Hope 1.02 will fix it.
-
Re: Rarity
Rarity makes sense in the regards of it being a weapons system that is uncommon IRL. Basically it's designed less for balancing more for keeping the game "honest" (think World War Two, if you want a big tank battle, it's there to keeping one opponent from simply buying as many King Tigers as possible, rare tank, less common). The M1A2 SEP V2 is already quite common in the US inventory. It is indisputably the MBT of the US Army, and there's a few thousand of them.
Ehm, nope. I was talking only about M1A2 with APS and rarity should apply only to M1A2 with APS, not vanilla M1A2.
It will be in the next patch, but not just for the US.
The other option is to just ban US APS. It's presence is speculative anyways.
Good to know, thanks.
US APS is a plausible thing for 2017, so rarity(as Tiger tank in CMBN is) will be just enough.
But will trade M1A2(APS) on A-10C CAS Support with no doubts
P.S. Best unit prices in QBs on my opinion were in CMBN.
-
The only thing which is overlooked in QBs are M1A2(APS) rarity, they simply don't have it.
Cause for now, if you play US Army you don't need Apaches, MGS Strykers and etc you just need lot of Abrams with APS and you're good to go. That's gamey tactics for sure, but it works in 100% cases.
If rarity(and that's justified) will be added for M1A2(APS) that would be great.
-
Jeez...I just asked about LOS in hull down position.
It's not about bias or smth like that. Maybe there's a way for dev to move "that thing which represents optics" on Khrizantema on the radar level.
-
Maybe someone have information about Khrizantema in-game LOS in hull down position?
Will it be fixed in 1.02 patch?
-
HUSKER2142,
Please provide particulars on engagement parameters. Who spotted who first, who was moving and all that other good stuff. I absolutely don't understand the part where the T-90 AM turned away to the right, completely exposed its flank, then fired on the run.
Regards,
John Kettler
I'm not a HUSKER2142, but I'll answer - this was a test run, Abrams had target armor LOS 10m, so they couldn't shoot back and T90 was rolling around trying to penetrate Abrams from different distance, so this test wasn't about who spots who first, it was T90s in-game gun vs M1A2 armor at different ranges.
-
I know the Tunguska is designed for anti-air, but can its weapon system fire armor piercing rounds?...like the 25mm cannon on the BRADLEY
Yes, Tunguska should have mixed ammo instead of current HE only.
P.S. Had same issue as dan/california has - My Abrams was ambushed by opponent's Tunguska. Tunguska was shooting at my Abrams, then my Abrams just turned his turret and with "OK" face shot Tunguska.
That shouldn't happen - my Abrams crew wasn't even disturbed and there was no sign of suppression.
-
Would be nice to see AGS-17/30 and Mk19 in Support menu like on-map mortars.
With less correction fire of course.
-
Additionaly current in-game TO&E misses few vehicles in ATGM Battery(Khrizantema):
1)9P157-3 as Platoon HQ vehicle. - 3 Crew members.2)9P157-4 as Battery HQ vehicle. - 4 Crew members. -
My 5 cents about Khrizantema-S:
I've tested it in scenario editor in 3 different conditions:
1) Open Ground, distance 4km. Day. Weather: Clear.
In first 5 seconds Krizantema spotted oppo tank.
2) Open Ground, distance 4km. Night. Weather: Heavy Rain.
Spotted oppo tank on 1.5km distance.
3) Open Ground, distance 4km. Night. Weather: Dense Fog.
Spotted oppo tank on 1km distance.Manual states that Khrizantema:
"The 9P157 is equipped with thermals, advanced optics, and a millimeter wave band radar system that allows
it to detect and track targets through any weather and obscurants such as smoke."
Test results show that in-game it's not any weather system.
And I have question about Hull Down position:
In this position Khrizantema can't shoot and/or spot anything, looking like a LOS bug, cause Radar is clearly above ground and Khrizantema at least should spot enemy tanks):
This position is marked by red circle(blue circle is where Khrizantema is partially hull down and have LOS):
-
Glorious Comrade Tunguska:
Sturm-S(I'm sure that driver In his heart is happy):
-
Looking like IFV TacAI bug, noticed same with BMP-2s: http://community.battlefront.com/topic/118259-bug-report-bmp-2s-bmp-3s-not-trying-to-use-atgm-on-tanks/
-
Noticed that too, it's Makarov ammo. Looking like a mistype.
-
Absolutely agree with TS.At first, when new information on Black Sea started to pop up, I thought that this will be just CMBN "reskin" and I was too sceptical on this project, then came up new videos with unfinished textures and etc. and thought - "OMG, they're making just CMBN reskin, I'll skip it for sure" and this feeling was all the way till final release.My friend(HUSKER on the forum) preordered it and asked me If I'll order CMBS too. I decided to wait when game will be released and will ask him - "So? How's CMBS?".And you know, his word were just - "It's amazing!" and I decided to get CMBS, I was preparing myself for "so-so" CM.Finally, when I downloaded it I started first scenario and damn! It's really amazing. I like dev. team approach on CMBS, it really feels different and it's definitely not a "CMBN reskin" and is one or even two heads above CMSF for me. Whole week we were playing WeGO TCP/IP Scenarios and QBs.New ideas like laser/GPS guided artillery munition, ERA and APS systems, UAVs, EWS and etc. - they are so nicely done, I couldn't believe that it will be done in such a good way.Thanks Developers and Battlefront team, - you brought me back to Combat Mission.
-
Thank you for the answer.
We're playing MP Campaign using TOAW for operational level and this conditions could ease translation unit(ex. Platoon) condition from CMBN to TOAW.
Maybe some clarification from developers will shed some light on this objectives.
-
Hello, could you please describe how does friendly/enemy condition & ammo objective calculation works.
Thank you for answers
-
Bil Hardenberger,
Do soviet infantry have any kind of smoke grenades?
Thank you.
-
Are you a SEAL, former SEAL or know people in that elite circle?
Sorry, but no
-
Lol
View from the Axis side explained everything.
P.S Thanks for your answers.
How to use the Khrizantema?
in Combat Mission Black Sea
Posted · Edited by animalshadow
Probably I'm wrong about intercepting supersonic ATGM. Can't find anything about max projectile speed.
It's not only about scenarios, I personally prefer QBs for example.
If M1A2(APS) were limited by rarity as Tiger tanks are in CMBN it would be ok, personally and perfect hull-down position issue with Kriz wouldn't be so noticeable.