Atago
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Posts posted by Atago
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I've been off mucking about in WW1 Naval battles (ahem, Jutland...) - but CMSF will have me back soon enough.
I was wondering - the Marine campaign - mission 3-4 (I forget which) has a mission where you are to take several areas - Pooh, Piglet, Eeyore I believe. Some time back someone was going to make a stand alone scenario of that. I did a bit of a search but wasn't able to find it. Was it done?
I had more problems with that one...
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After a while longer in the Pooh mission you will start to say stronger things than poo or excement or feces. I dragged out some swear words I haven't used since my navy days playing that mission. $#!+, there went another of my tanks, etc.
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depends on how you look at it... I managed it on the 2nd try as on the first try the computer hanged itself (memory crash thingy) but on the first try my scouts had just entered the first houses on the right side.
so If you dont count the 1st try that crashed I actually did manage it on my first attempt, but with pretty heavy casualtysand ALLOT of them due to ****ing mines. never got arty on me thoe.
/Thomas
I'd love to see how you did it. I don't doubt too much that it's possible, but geez this one caused me problems and I dug up some swear words I havn't used since I was in the Navy 18 years ago!
I ran into problems with artillery when I move troops on foot. If I keep them in their "rides" then the ATGM's cream 'em. Tanks were not proof to the ATGm's either, I lost one or two to BMP-3 attack on a few occasions. I never found a balance of being able to keep mutual support between armor and troops and keep it all moving forward fast enough so as not to "find" artillery or ATGM's the hard way.
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Falconander -
I still have found the humvees to be one of the best targets there are. First, they are low value compared to any other vehicle. Second, the AI seems to really, REALLY hate them and often seems to give their positions away shooting at them. The Humvee is pretty fast too - I have zipped them around to draw ATGM fire at times, noting that the missiles all miss - and now I know where the lauchers are!
Pooh was a biatch. I only got through by cheating - not intentionally, but after a while I just knew where stuff was at and where to spot from. I wonder if anyone has ever gotten through that one the first time (and I'm not entirely sure I'd believe anyone that said they did anyhow!).
Smoke - it's great, but there is so few rounds with any given artillery battery or mortar. I find that like with the artillery itself, it's often limited enough that I become afraid to use it in case I find a situation later in the scenario where I really need it badly.
I look forward to getting Pooh and Milk run as stand alone scenarios (perhaps with different AI plans just to make them more interesting).
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Once more, keep in mind I am probably no one to be giving advice - I am still learning this blasted addicting $*$&@ game!
I am not certain of this, but I have seen that when you are playing the Syrians side in a battle that only the spotters can typically call in artillery. Even leaders (flags) can't, though I am not sure this is always the case. So that means that the spotter cannot see everywhere. If he does see you and calls in artillery you may be able to figure out where he's at. I did this with some success in Pooh (yes, I cheated later to see where the bastards were hiding - there were 3 of them).
I don't know why the Syrians hate the humvees so much, and I think it's gamey to use them the way I do - but hey, gotta keep my boys from the grinder somehow!
In observing how the A.I. calls down artillery - it doesn't seem to call in area fire too often (though it's not always easy to tell). Just making sure no one is where they were when the spotting round started seems to work fairly well (make sure no one is in the same place someone else started either - found out the hard way to be careful of that).
Hope I'm of some help. I didn't see anyone else answering so figured I'd do what I could to help out. Best of luck to you, I still haven't exactly figured out how to deal with "uncle Arty" myself.
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I had the same problem. One thing I did was to use my Humvee's to act as decoys and bring in artillery. After a few enemy spotting rounds I'd scoot them off a ways and repeat. The Syrians seem to really hate Hummers!
One other thing I have done is try to figure out where the spotter may be, and give him something else to think about. Doesn't always work, but sometimes it seems to help.
In Milk Run I believe I just kept my infantry in their vehicles and scooted the vehicles around when spotting rounds started falling. That way when they fire for effect there is nothing there.
I have not found a good answer to enemy artillery other than keeping on the move - sometimes running squads quickly a few hundred yards to get out from under where the fire for effect will fall. My main problem is when I've got enemy ATGM's or RPG's endangering my armor and artillery endangering my infantry. I've not found a good answer for that situation yet.
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I shall be most interested to see how (if) a Challenger tank has any difference that is noticable as compared to an M1A1 or A2 other than in loods. Their HE rounds are different, I believe. For the US they could add the canister shot for the tanks (I forget what it's called).
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I would imagine that one of the 'surprises' included in the Brit Pack will be the US Light Infantry formation and maybe some more US stuff. Otherwise, a lot of Americans just aren't going to buy it. I'm not expecting to see anything new for the Syrian side as the CM:SF title is ablout Modern Era combat against Syria and not against Russia or China or anybody else. However, I will be disappointed if they don't give the Syrians some trucks. There is absolutely no good reason for denying them to the Syrians other than the time it takes for BFC to 'code them in'.
I wouldn't say Americans would not be interested in the British expansion unless it had American military surprises. I for one (American) don't care if the US is in it or not and would in fact rather see more foreign updates to reflect multinational forces. I'd be more likely to want the module if it had French, German, Belgian or whatever units than more toys for the US military. That's just me though, ya could be right!
With the conflict being hypothetical there are a few ways they could go. Maybe the Russians send some new equipment to Syria? Maybe Iran gets involved at some point (opens another front or something)?
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I'd wait for the 1.1 patch as the editor and quick battles don't really work any differently than in the Marines version.
I still haven't quite gotten the hang of the editor and really liked the CM1 version of it, but then again I hate having to actually read the directions on anything!
My understanding is that 1.1 will have an improved way of picking forces that will give some more control to the player. I enjoyed (and am still enjoying) the Marine module and find that just tweaking around with existing scenarios keeps me entertained even when building my own maps and scenarios is too problematical and confusing.
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The one that gets to me is when the AT team sees an enemy tank while on hunt, goes prone and doesn't see it any more - then doesn't fire at it 'cause it can't see it. Peek a boo! Did the tank vanish because you can't see it any more?
I've had situations similar to that described here too - Unit on a rooftop spots enemy tank. I send a Javelin team up there and run them all over the roof and they can't seem to spot it. You'd think that they'd talk to the spotting team; "see it? It's right there behind that bush next to the 3 story building on that hill".
I understand that making CMSF even as good as it is was and remains a challenge - be nice to have some of the remaining "rough edges" smoothed though!
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I've had trouble using ANY of the TOW-armed vehicles against anything that can do a credible job of firing back. Getting hit by a T72 main gun round is just as dangerous for a Bradley or TOW Styker as it is for a Humvee!
But the Bradley and Striker can take a bit more punishment from an enemy BMP or other light vehicle while the hummer cannot. You're right though in that their use is limited to defensive actions. I don't think I have ever had a TOW armed vehicle spot and fire a TOW at an enemy stationary target before that target fired. The one good thing is that the AI seems to just hate hummers and fires at them apparently before other targets. So if you are moving a TOW hummer and Bradley or tank very close to one another is seems like the hummer is the favored target. Nice for spotting enemy ATGM's or RPG's (as long as you're not a hummer driver or crew).
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Well, I was a tanker for about 5 years. We used to fire from a slow crawl - 10-20 mph at the most. This gives you the most accurate, steady fire platform, while still moving.
Interesting - moving slowly to present a somewhat harder target for anyone shooting at you while maintaining the ability to shoot.
How did you deal with (or were you trained to deal with) enemy ATGMs?
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Any tankers here? My impression is that the M1A1 AND A2 tanks as well as the Leopard have an advantage over earlier and most Eastern block tanks in their ability to accurately fire while moving. Now this may be a question more for the strategy, Tactics forum - but In CMSF they stop to fire (if operated by the AI). I'm not suggesting CMSF is flawed here, just curious about how the actual tanks fight, and if in CMSF they loose much accuracy if firing on the move instead of stopping.
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I managed to finally get a tactical win on this one. I came up the left side where the hill is. There are 3 ATGM squads over there that are trouble but my poor Hummers attract their attention and let me zero in my artillery. I had more problems with the enemy artillery - they seem to have a near never ending supply of shells. I've found that moving everything around as soon as I see spotting rounds falling pays well, and I use any hummers left to draw Artillery fire by parking them out where the spotter can see them as "bait".
I managed to take out all but a couple of the enemy tanks that came in, and since I was covering the left, my trucks didn't get hammered instantly, though I did find a BMP3 over there that had hidden well until the trucks arrived - M1A1 "found it". Drove my IFV's up the left side, managed to dodge mines I guess - and into the buildings. I then worked my way toward Pooh, sent some back to Piglet and then went for Eeyore but the game ended before I could secure it.
I admit that I now know where - or about where most of the ATGM's are at and enemy BMP-3's and tanks so it's not like I won this one out of great "generalship". Even semi-cheating (I just assume I have live predator drones over head ) I FINALLY won (well, more won than lost at least).
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Could the scenarios that are part of the campaign be made into stand alone ones for "battle" missions? Even if they don't "unlock" until after you run the campaign version they'd be fun to try. I don't know if I'll ever get to the final mission of the campaign with enough forces to make a game of it. Last time it was laughable with all the Syrian tanks rolling about and me with no ATGM's left or tanks of my own. About all I could do is make faces at them and hide.
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especially the artillery. I hate coming into missions seeing an already empty mortar in my list. I can just here it going nyah, nyah at me! Sometimes I don't need to use my artillery but do - blasting a suspected enemy position for example. If I know I will get short changed next mission I'd tend to keep the artillery I'm going to loose for more specific targets.
I try not to think of my units as just computer Ones and Zeros and tend not to want to get then killed off even if I'm not going to need them next round. The only exception is my poor Hummers - I tend to wag their behinds out in the open to see if there are any more ATGM's around before I drive a tank or other AFV out there. Even going full tilt it seems they usually get it. Poor guys have a low life expetency in my command
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Heh. You want to know which soldiers are expendable, and which aren't? Think about that question for a sec
Jon
You know what I mean!
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I got to the final mission in the campaign. Funny thing, the computer says that my tanks have arrived - but none are there. Ouch - looks like I need to go all the way back to Pooh and try to get through with a few more tanks! I was wondering why I only had 2 in this mission... now I know.
I wish there as a way to know what forces you need to be careful with as you'll need them later. Artillery in particular I'm reluctant to use already, even more now that I know I may need it even more later in the game!
Ah well, back to Pooh again then on to the milk run, hopefully with a few more tanks and my predator drones helping me know where the enemy is at (second time through helps).
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How are the planes vs Infantry? I tend to use aircraft like big hammers to KO buildings and concentrations of bad guys. A trench line though, seems to be a bit of overkill except for using "light" which I believe means guns only.
Nice to see that Light works well on BMP's and what not.
I too spotted the BMP and tank concentration on the hill and splattered them back to Allah with one good hit from my aircraft.
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A lot of the positions are pretty obvious and can be clobbered by arty or overwatched by snipers. A heavy/quick 155 barrage will clear out most enemy positions and use up hardly any ammo. Be sure to save some arty for smoke though, it will be a life saver.
One thing you can do is to peak a tank into a marginal position and it will draw missiles that have a good chance of slamming into something other than the tank. Then all you have to worry about are RPGs. That is where your smoke and infantry come in.
There are a bunch of trenches all over the hills - and ATGM's can be any place. I expected one or more to be up the valley/canyon left of the bridge, but even knowing it's up there you can't spot it until it fires and the area is far to wide to effectively plaster. The trenches too are very long and there's not enough artillery to "splatter" everything in all of them.
It seems sometimes that the best bet is to run several armor units out in the open, you sacrifice one but the others will usually see the ATGM crew and take it out. Hate to do that as I don't suspect it's a "real" world tactic but I don't know how to manage the dang things otherwise! I never have enough artillery to go around (and would LOVE to have as much as the enemy in this one!).
How do you clobber an ATGM crew with snipers if you only see them after they've fired? Same with artillery, I can usually take them out AFTER I've lost one or more vehicles to them.
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Are they good for anything but to act as targets? In an offensive mission (and all of them in the Marine campaign are) they seem unable to spot enemy armor before that armor spots them. Very bad for hummer.
In defensive positions they're useful (Pooh mission when the enemy tanks ride in half way into the scenario).
Don't get me wrong - I like a good hummer as much as the next guy...
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Spoilers perhaps....
FINALLY got past pooh and friends, on to the next one. I'm curious how others deal with the dilemmas presented
First, you have well hidden ATGM teams that don't seem to be spotted until they fire, and even then they vanish quickly again so are hard to fix as to their location.
I know the answer to them is infantry forward, however issue 2....
Second - The enemy has lots of mortars and spotters evidently in pretty good position to see from. Any infantry moving forward gets pounded if they move slow, cut down by enemy infantry if they move fast to dodge the artillery.
I won the mission, but lost a lot of troops and vehicles including both tanks. I ended up using my Hummers to draw fire and got some of the ATGM teams with artillery as my spotters were in fairly good positions.
Is there an answer to the twin problems of Artillery cancelling infantry and ATGM's doing the same for armor? Running the ATGM crews out of ammo hurts and my Hummer drivers are bitching for some reason
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The campaign is borked so forces you into this mission, all roads lead to pooh they say.
Excellent map, currently on my fourth attempt after a loss, draw and minor victory, hopefully a major victory this time and will be able to put this map behind me.
Would be interested to hear the proposed changes to this mission (and campaign in general) in 1.11
I will probably go back to this one when the fix is made so the trucks with reinforcements don't pop in under fire.
Nothing irks me more in CMSF then when my reinforcements come on and are immediately killed off with ATGM's and what not before I can do anything.
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FINALLY got past this one!
I went up the left side instead of the middle and though none of my 4 tanks made it through in working condition (dang ATGM's - still have no idea how to deal with them!) I managed at tactical victory somehow. I grabbed the highway objective and piglet (I think), the one toward the back left side. I almost made it to the center objective (Eeyore I think) but ran out of time.
Biggest issues - ATGM's and artillery. I cheated somewhat in that I knew where many of the enemy forces were at (I had predator drones I guess) and I took advantage of the AI's love to bombard Hummers. I put them out and wag their behinds at the spotters then move them when the spotting rounds start to fall. Keep that up and they'll use up all their arty and leave my troops alone for the most part.
Post Pooh mission
in CMSF Strategy and Tactics Forum
Posted
Did these scenarios ever get built? I'd still like to play with Pooh and some of the others as stand alone scenarios instead of having to go all the way through the previous campaign missions to get there.