kulik
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Posts posted by kulik
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Well, we're talking about a pretty small window of opportunity here, IMHO. If the tank is ambushed early enough in the turn the other tanks will enter the killzone prior to the player exercising godlike control. Frankly, I just don't see the issue happening all that much, then again, since I use armor in an overwatch capacity the chances of the killed tank being the only eyes on the ATG are pretty slim. I would hate to see cpu cycles used on this when they could be put to better use on AI routines or just running the game better.
If you move whole formation of tanks and they discover the gun, we would have to believe they passed the info and other units can area fire the target. ...we at the start of the problem.
I cant imagine solution for this kind of situation, but my idea was to get rid of the "scout with one tank" situation. If you scout with more units, you risk significantly more and you would not discover the ambush so cheap.
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Let me try this again. I'm suggesting that if the tank doesn't die at the end of the turn but rather one second into the next turn, the player could still issue the god's eye area fire orders during the break between turns.
Oh, you mean that if the gun is spotted 0:55 and he dies 1:01! Now that's correct, when hes not dead at the end and he spottes something it will be seen and can be fired upon. (sorry english is not my native languish, so i sometimes misinterpret things)
But let's face it will that happen too often? We would cut down the cases of god's eye area fire to maybe 5-10%. I would call it a step forward.
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This doesn't really address the issue either. If the Sherman doesn't die until second 1 of the next turn the godlike player would still be able to area target with Shermans 2 & 3, and RT players would still be able to pause and issue the area targeting orders as soon as the attacking unit is spotted.
No, in the replay you wont see what killed you. No matter if the tank dies in first 10 seconds or last 10 seconds. If its dead at the end of the turn, you wont see units spotted by him. ...nothing to area target. I mean you see the action after its computed, so after its computed the system hide all enemies seen only by your dead units. This works only in wego of course.
You right with the infantry, that was just a quick thought.
Edit:
Model situation:
Planning phase-move the tank 10 meters forward.
Computing phase- tank moving…gun aiming…gun firing… tank hit…gun spotted…gun firing…tank hit…tank destroyed…turn ends…checking…gun spotted by tank (status dead!)...hiding gun
Replay- Tank moves…tank gets hit…tank gets hit again…tank destroyed. (no gun shown-just sound contact)
Planning phase-wtf, where was the gun firing from?!
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Kulik,
That's an interesting suggestion, but in practical terms I don't know that it would make much of a difference. It would also get quite confusing.
The better solution would be to make sure that marginal conditions for spotting don't result in the firing unit being spotted in the first place. This is, unfortunately, impractical to do because there is no way for the system to project forward and guess if the spotting unit isn't going to survive long enough to report the enemy's position. In my Sherman example, the system would need to know ahead of time that Sherman #1 was going to get killed very quickly after it spotted the Pak40, then eliminate the spotting information before it is shown.
Steve
I think it would be a BIG difference, in your case you would now just that your sherman is dead...nothing to fire on (no gamey area fire), just sending more troops or take another way...like the real thing. Confusing? I agree that you get limited intel on whats going on, but that is the point of gods eye problem- you know what you shouldn't know.
It would be problem without the blue bar, so you could miss the moment the tank gets killed. But thats not the case now. (what else its confusing? ...maybe i miss something.)
(Just mention it to the team, i think its a decent solution.)
Edit: It would be possible only in WEGO of course, just at the end of the round hide all enemies spotted by your dead units. (not seen by anything else)
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The Pak40 engages Sherman 1 coming down Road A. It takes a shot, misses, and alerts Sherman 1 that there is something shooting at it. The Pak40 fires again and Sherman 1 spots it, then gets knocked out seconds later. There are no witnesses except the player, because he's God and sees all
The attacking player selects Sherman 2 on Road A and Sherman 3 on Road B. Both are currently out of LOS/LOF, but can get it very quickly by moving a little bit forward. Neither one can saw the Pak40 engage Sherman 1, but they know that Sherman 1 was toasted. So realistically they are VERY aware that there is some form of deadly AT weapon in the area, but no idea what. The player, on the other hand, knows exactly what shot and exactly where it is. This, unfortunately, is where the problem lies and inherently there is no fix for this at all.
The attacking player orders Shermans 2 and 3 to Area Fire the gun's location, then tells them to both HUNT forward. They do this and as soon as they get within LOS/LOF they start firing their beefy 75s at the Pak40. This is, of course, unrealistic since neither Sherman would know exactly where to fire without some sort of confirmation by infantry or something else like that. Even then the accuracy of their shots would be highly conditional (quality of information, confusion of terrain, etc.).
OK, so the two Shermans advance and start wailing on the Pak40. Since Area Fire is inherently inaccurate, and the Pak40 is in a good position, it's possible that the Pak40 will survive and even take out both Shermans. But the Area Fire has unrealistically reduced that chance. What should happen, in real life, is the two Shermans would move forward and then have to ID the Pak40 first, which would likely result in at least one Sherman getting knocked out, decent chance of both getting knocked out.
What can be done about this?
Steve
In wego mode you could (after the turn is computed) simply in replay don't show spotted enemy units when your spotting unit its dead at the end of the turn.
In this case Sherman1 would be dead before the turn ends, so in the replay you would just see it getting killed, but you wouldn't see by what or from what direction.
...no gods eye there.
Edit: I would go so far that if infantry squad is pinned, the units seen by them won't show in replay too.
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Will there be TCP/IP wego mode? (i didn't find the answer by searching the forums)
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The big problem I see is that the commander still needs an overhead map from which to issue orders, and if the 3D map is used, no problems above are avoided. You would need to be able to bring up an abstracted 2D tactical map that provides basic topography and known features from which to issue orders (ala Operation Flashpoint), otherwise, how do you order a unit to cross over a hill or to the far side of a forest?
I dont find it too hard give orders in 3D even if camera is positioned too low. (Except when two units are standing in line and you need to target the one which is more far away.) Your concerns are that you can issue orders only in your FOW, right? It sounds great when it comes to realism, but your right that will probably render this system useless. Maybe wego in 30 sec intervals, would make it playable (forest combat would be still a problem) or harder to implement the 2D tactical map as you said)
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The more im thinking about it, the more excited about it i am. But i just spended some time right now in CMx1 moving the camera at eyes level in editor created maps and its not easy to organize and plan things in that view, some minimap would help.
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Thanks for the info.
Paraphrasing something here: "In an FPS game, you only see what your character can see. This provides FOW"
Is it possible you might implement a difficulty setting that only allows you to view the battlefield from the perspective of your units at their view height?
I think that is marvelous idea. Pretty hardcore, and probably only usable in wego mode, but still would make it unique experience. And maybe not so hard to implement, i guess.
When i try to picture it, i think it would be a little pain to play, but would shift the game towards realism.
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Are there some gameplay tweaks planed with the new module? (The blue bar was a big leap, i think tcp-ip wego mode would be great logical step forward.)
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Hi, is there any topic which discuss features of WW2 CM2 game? Im curious what system it will have? (most important if there will be TCP/IP in Wego mode, or at least pausable realtime)
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Will be possible to record battles and watch highlights of it directly in the game? Its great that you have awesom details on the models, but im spending 95% of the time from topdown view moving units icons, so when the battle is over i would like to rewind it and whatch the highlights.
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Yes, there was no problem and i see the number. I even tried to reinstal it, and it didnt help.
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Hi, i bought this game yesterday. I applied last patch, the game and map editor works fine. I have a problem with running battle editor and mission generator. Every time i try to run it i get message: "Object reference not set to an instance of an object."
I have european retail version from Cenega and 10.???.81 patch for this version. Im running windows XP. I have instaled NETframework 2.0 and i have checked the paths to "triggercompiler.exe" and to folder MissionEditor. Everything seems to be in place. Any idea what could be wrong?
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Hi, im lurking on this forum since 1.08 came out when i felt there is hope after all, but im playing CM1 3 years now at least 2 battles per week so im big fan of the series.
The blue bar is a great leap forward. I thought i will install cmsf once again, but then it strikes me! The game might be pretty awesome right now, but there is still no TCP/IP wego mode and i hate PBEM as much as playing against AI! Im not trying to build some kind of pressure on battlefront, its my problem that im not suited for realtime and PBEM there are lots of customers which enjoy it.
Anyway im speaking for my self and im saying that i want TCP/IP Wego or pausable realtime TCP/IP. Adjustable time for wego (15-60s)would be also awesome.
Marry Christmas and looking forward to CM2 WWII.
(as you can see english is not my native languish
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Count me in!
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Hi, this is my first post in this forum, but i'd like to say that this is my most "must have" game ever. (Im reading the game overview once a week.)
Im keeping my eye on this games since im started to playing CMBB (6 months or so).
Im keeping my finger crossed, and hoping that you finally finish this game.
P.S. The new screenshot looks great.
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Men of War
in General Discussion Forum
Posted
Hey guys i just found a super RTS game that is called "Men of War", its like company of heroes, but much slower, tactical and far more realistic. (its stuck somewhere between COH and TOW)
Since im not much into clickfests the slower tempo and the "smarter player wins" style suits me perfectly.
Check out some videos on youtube and play the demo.