crazylegsmurphy

I have questions I would like answers to, either answer them, or find another thread please, you're simply spamming my thread for no reason. If you're "tired of it" stop reading my threads.

I had to shut off my dual processors, but I'm still struggling to get it to be smooth on larger battles. Try the dual core thing first though.

Shut it Athkatla...I'm asking questions here, if you can't contribute something to this, then keep your comments to yourself please.

Is there a way to shut up the dog and crow? Is anyone finding the icons being so close to the bottom of the screen causing accidental scrolling to be a problem? Is there a default camera angle, and if so how do I get to it? Is anyone having trouble with the mini-map not jumping to where you place the cursor? Is there any way to protect AT guns (they are getting slaughtered)? Can your troops use tanks as cover when assaulting things? Is there a quick way to find your troops, see what you have, where it is, and group units? When troops get panicked is there any way to make them do something? Why do "critically wounded" troops still fight? Is there a way for the ENTER button to follow the turret of a tank? Can I make my troops sprint, or actually run at a realistic pace? How do I set waypoints for tanks so they don't hit trees? How do I stop my vehicles on the move from coming to a complete stop, then starting again when I issue a new order? Is there a way to make the sounds sound less "Tinny", like a bass setting? What is the solution for finding cover when running over vast open fields? Why can my troops see two men on a flat field, but not the third man who is running beside them? Is there any way I can request feedback either in the form of audio or text to alert me of the battle status? "TANK!!" for example. When I assign the camera to follow the cursor, is there a way to keep it from skipping forward? Can I assign my tanks to move to a waypoint and then turn a certain way so when they show up they are not exposing vital areas? Can I make my planes attack from a certain direction if I want to avoid AA, or my own troops? Why don't my units move into the formation I choose, I couldn't get them to do it? How do I build sandbag bunkers, tank traps, wire, MG nests, etc? Can I turn down the "crackly tank crew" voice, it seems twice as loud as all the other sounds and almost made my ears bleed. How do I determine what my units are seeing? How do I tell if they can't see around a bush, or a tree? I try doing the ENTER button thing, but I am not sure what the AI feels it can see. Why are my tanks, and enemy tanks able to turn 180 degrees while in the middle of a trench? As well, how come they don't fall in when driving parallel to the trench? Can I stop my troops from shooting small arms rounds at tanks? I found they would lose sight of the troops, and then refocus attention on tanks. How do I force my troops to engage in hand to hand combat? I was in a trench and my man and the enemy sat at point blank range and fired pistols at each other. How do I keep my men from standing, then laying down, then kneeling, then standing again? Especially in combat? Can I expand the bottom menu, put it somewhere else, hide it, etc? What graphics features does this game support that I can turn on in my Nvidia console? (example, Anti-aliasing) Is there a way for units to find cover automatically when they are in danger, or warn me they are in danger? Can I move the "battle updates" under the mini-map to the screen? I have a 24" monitor and I miss half the updates because I am looking at the battle instead of down there. Can I make the mouse wheel zoom forward instead of adjust the hight? Can I pick up dropped weapons from other units such as Tommy Guns, sniper rifles, etc. If so, how do I find them in the grass? Can I make my units "sneak" instead of run all the time? Do the enemy respond to noise? How do I force my tanks to back up instead of turning around without using the retreat button? My troops have LOS, but is there a setting to make them "remember" where things were? Meaning, if a unit is being chased by another unit, and the one unit lays down in the grass, can I make my unit/game sort of "remember" where they are (intelligence) so they aren't just gone like ninja? Going back to try the demo again, will have more questions later probably. [ April 19, 2007, 04:25 AM: Message edited by: crazylegsmurphy ]

I gave up and my only goal is to kill that dog and the crow.

G - (Tanks/Vehicles/Terrain) 17 (Troops/Terrain/Explosions/smoke/animation) 8 S - 8 U - 10 P - (pathfinding/LOS) 3 (all other) 18 O - 16

You are correct I admit. I understand that there is a different mentality here than in the average RTS crowd. Yes, the graphics are for the most part functional...by no means "wow" but they work. The reason I am going off is because I WANT to like this game, I have installed the demo 4 times now hoping each time I'll like it. The reason I am here still is because I hope that someone listens and makes it all that it could be. Imagine this game with a CoH look...MAN!!! I would be peeing my pants! CoH is fun, but if they fixed some of the odd things about this game (AI, Pathfinding) and threw some graphics on it...this thing would outsell CoH in a split second, set some new standards, and be the new benchmark I think.

Ummm, I'm not entirely sure how to address this, nor am I sure you're actually making sense....no offence. Why would a game, spend time rendering grass effects, guys loading AT guns, men climbing in tanks, a free floating camera that can zoom to eye level, leaves on trees, rocks on the ground, if the intention was to hover 100 feet above the ground and move "triangles" around? To me your reasoning seems odd, you're saying that I am out of line because if I zoom in to far it's my own fault for doing so? I understand what you are saying though, but if you want to use CoH as an example. There are some pretty fair sized maps in that game 4 vs. 4 maps to be exact. And they were able to add so much visual candy that you CAN zoom right in and the troops have 5 o'clock shadows on their faces. Yes I realize that the back end doesn't have the same dynamics as ToW, but I find it hard to believe that CoH can pump out the graphics, the gameplay, 4 vs. 4 multiplayer, and a rotate able camera, and I can still bust out 56 FPS average on FULL settings, yet ToW can't even get half that? They are releasing a DX10 patch soon that will add dynamic lighting, grass, etc. Then you have ToW, where while the maps are huge, you have seemingly less units, less map destruction, low poly models, 2D animation, etc. Maybe I am totally out to lunch, but it feels like because this was built on an old game engine, the game is struggling to keep up with the graphics requirements. Sure some people are getting good frame rates, and like I said, this may be my PC alone, but to me, if people are getting such amazing frame rates, why didn't they spend a little more time cleaning up the graphics and sound? Wasteful to me, is having the ability to make something awesome, but settling for less for whatever reason. The sad fact is that slick graphics is what helps sell games. [ April 19, 2007, 12:04 AM: Message edited by: crazylegsmurphy ]

Oh for sure, I totally agree. Different strokes for different folks for sure. I am actually a big fan of a lot of different types of games, particularly WWII based ones. I am very much into everything WWII, I have two awesome winter jackets that are genuine, I collect 1930's and 40's suits, I drive a 1948 Pontiac Silver Streak (when the thing runs). You noticed I never once reviews the realism in this game, it seems totally real...the parts that aren't realistic such as the way the AI reacts is what makes it hard for me to get into the game. Yes, I do. I am a graphic artist by trade so I put a huge emphasis on graphics and how they add to the game. And like your analogy, most restarants spend a LOT of time working out how things appear to the person eating it because as visual creatures we often judge things with all our senses. The point I was trying to make before in my "review" is that of course good gameplay should come before all graphics, but with ToW it seems almost like they threw darts at a graphics quality chart and where ever the darts landed they decided to design that way. For example, the tanks/vehicles look awesome, but the men look so odd. When I asked before why the arrows looked so ugly, I was told that they agreed, but there simply wasn't time or resources to change them. To me, this doesn't make any sense, why would you spend so much time making sure one thing looks awesome, but then neglect the things that are actually crucial to the gameplay? Sure the water looks really cool, but what does that matter if the menus are jammed together and the text is almost unreadable at anything above 1024x768? That's all I'm saying as a non-pro RTS wargamer, I think that adding in a visual cue to the units so I can tell what they are looking at would greatly improve the visual jarring of the enemy units popping in and out of view. It's basically like saying, there is a action, reaction going on where if I move tank X in to position A, I can see where he is looking so I know that he can't see behind that tree, and that stone, and that blade of grass. This would then make sense when the enemy pops into view because I could say, "Oh, ok, my tank couldn't see behind that tree, and when the enemey ran out from behind it, it totally makes sense why it's now there. Oh for sure, most games are modded, but I feel there is a big difference from people modding a game because instead of a green tank, they want a tan one...but when you see people on a forum, before the game even comes out say, "The sound sucks, hope we can mod it." It's basically like saying, "Spend your money on this game, and then hope someone fixes it!" I don't have any issue with mods, but why expect me to pay $45 US for a game that I already know needs mods before it'll be totally enjoyable? And finally, like I said, I drive a 48' Silver Streak, and the thing handles like a barn...but I can still avoid trees! I like the realism of the game, but if you are going to expect me to ACTUALLY drive the truck, then at least let me drive it. I mean, if my only job in a war was to drive a truck around trees, I think I may be able to handle it, but because I have 67 other things I have to do, I don't have time to select the unit, click a bunch of buttons (the drive on the road button) then babysit it so it's not taking out every tree on the map, stopping and becoming a visual target for everything in a 40 mile radius. I want to order my truck from A to B and have it be smart enough to say, if we hit all those trees, we'll be a sitting duck.

Oh crap, I'm sorry, did I miss the sign up sheet for the elite gamers club on the way in? Don't talk down to me like I am some kind of moron that can't have an opinion because I haven't played the same games as you. To assume I am simply a "button masher" is a pretty poor response. No offense, I don't care what your grandpa did, as it has no relevance to this post or topic. I knew there would be one person who eventually had to go off on CoH rant. This person however has lit enough of a fire under my ass to allow me to say what I want straight out without sugar coating it because as I can see now, there are a lot of people here that are simply not going to listen, or care. Simply, this game is not fun. It's dated, it looks, and sounds dated. It's built on an outdated engine and as a result it looks old right out of the box. The camera controls defy common sense and to someone who has experience working in 3D software will find them cumbersome and awkward. The tanks look really good, but the men look horrid. The animation should have been done by animators and not by off the shelf software. Some of the sounds (such as planes & MG's) are laughable. The explosions are ugly, the tanks don't have any "presence", the vehicles are jerky and unpredictable and you need to "button mash" just to retreat, use the road, turn left, start, stop, get hit...you think CoH is a button masher...it takes less effort to drive a truck in real life than it does in ToW. People can call me stupid because I don't spend the time navigating my trucks down the road 10 feet at a time or using the, "Don't be stupid, use the road not a tree" button for making them go, but the simple fact is in my opinion this is simply lazy AI programming. There is NO reason why a truck should attempt to knock over a tree and simply not drive around. As for the LOS, it's simply incomplete in my opinion. Give me one reason why the troops don't have a LOS circle that is nicely laid along the ground, and shows where the troop can, and can't see. The reason is the same reason for the ugly arrows that point awkwardly at stuff...not a care enough to go the extra mile to fix it. And finally, this review is not because I am some jerkstore who can't figure out a computer game, it's because I'm NOT one of you fanboys of CM, or whatever games you played in the past. I'm a potential customer who will gladly put his money into a game he feels is worthy of it. This game has "unfinished" written all over it, and from MY experience in games, that leads to nothing but frustration and resentment. When you have posts popping up that say, "cool demo, is it moddable?" you know something isn't right. You know when people are already wondering if someone can mod the camera, or the sounds, or the animation that the game was simply launched because any more delay and it would have been too hard to push. So there, you go. To the point. Don't worry, I'll go back to my CoH now, mash some more buttons and actually have some fun. Have fun!

I think you are missing my point. I have no problem with not being able to see my enemy, what I don't like is not knowing what my own troops are seeing. I'm trying to think of a better way to explain this. I dunno other than how I have already explained it. I understand the concept, but for me it's just not working...I need to know what my troops are seeing so I can place them in places to get better views of things. I can't simply wait around for them to spot something. I just did what some of you suggested. I took my trucks and ordered them from the top of the hill...to the bottom of the hill...basically a straight line right down the road. A distance of a walk to your local 7-11. I did this (restarted the mission) 4 times. (note, the first time the mission loaded it took roughly 52 seconds) I clicked basically the same position, and they took out an average of 5 trees each time. The best score the driver had was one time he only hit the first tree. So you're telling me I should be micromanaging my trucks in some wide arch around trees, while all the while I'm getting slammed by shells, my troops are standing around, and I am supposed to be fighting a battle? Also, can you shut off that wind sound? It's whistling nonstop in my ear and it's driving me batty.

I understand how the concept works, I'm saying that it feel unnatural to me to have units randomly appear. In other RTS games the fog of war is there to give the illusion that your troops are revealing what they are seeing. Other units fade into view and you then react accordingly. This illusion of sight helps give the player visual clues as to what is going on. It also helps eliminate what I could call, "I can see it all, yet I'm totally blind!" Because I can't actually see what my troops are seeing, I am at the mercy of them. When AT guns suddenly pop up on my screen, I have to start playing a game of "remember the position" As my snipers ran behind things the AT gun popped out of view...then back in...then out...then in...I knew where it was, but this "popping" action just looked odd to me. I would have rather not seen anything, and then as my troops LOS came closer the AT gun came into view...you know like typical LOS...this way I am not guessing when my sniper will see, but I am actually making him position himself where I KNOW he can see based on visual clues of a FOW or LOS radius. EDIT: The major issue I had is one AT gun popping in and out of view is odd...but when a whole platoon of enemy troops is popping all in and out randomly all over the map, it's like a huge game of "whack a mole!" only I don't know where the holes are.

As I said before, I am sure I could have worked the camera controls, I chose not to because I didn't think the purpose of the demo was for me to spend the next 8 hours tweaking things. Locating things on the map would be easy if clicking the mini-map actually took you where you wanted to go. I found that when you click on part of the map, it actually takes you a bit ahead of where you clicked. And because your camera can be at any random angle at any time, clicking on the mini-map I found means nothing because you're not seeing anything consistently. What I mean is that when I clicked on my green circles one time, I saw them immediately. But there were other time when my camera was angled oddly, and when I went to try and get my troops to get out of the way of the tank, I spent a bunch of time circling around trying to figure out where they actually were. Again, this is my lack of experience with the game. Whatever the reason for the pathfinding, I don't want to have to make sure my camera angle is perfect before I move a unit. Ya, I am aware I could have made him stop driving through trees, but my point isn't that I could have, it's that in a battle environment, when I am trying to win, I don't want to have to select, click, watch, confirm, then go on. I want to assume the AI is smart enough to drive around the trees and get to where I asked them to get to. If I have to babysit them that much, then let me actually drive the tank...I have a steering wheel joystick here.. "Private, I want you to drive that truck through 8 trees regardless of your personal safety, are you questioning my orders Private?" My drivers are up to date, no offense, but I'm not THAT much of a dolt.

While I understand your post has a tone of "pffft, jackass!" to it, I am simply saying what I saw. I don't have any reason to bash this game, I don't have any personal vendetta against the company, I just have watched the game for a while, and tried the demo. I have a Pentium 4 Duo 3.0, 2 Gigs Ram, 8800 GST video card, running on Vista. I can play every other game just fine. I turned off the dual processor, and still....the more units on the map, the more it lagged. I would hope that everyone reading this would understand that there could be a million reasons for this. What I WILL say however is that my performance was the exact performance that I have been seeing in the released videos. There are times when my frame rate would be fine (like in the tutorials) and there are times when it dropped to the point where it was really laggy for me. I adjusted the settings, changes resolutions, compromised, compromised, and then finally said, "I dunno why, but this game isn't capturing my attention enough to try and fix it, it simply looks like the videos I saw, and maybe that's the way it is!" As for the pathfinding, typical RTS or not, if I have to spend my time making sure units are driving around each and every tree, I may as well play The Sims and keep walking around picking up that potato chip bag my "roommate" keeps leaving on the floor. I mean, I don't play games to babysit the units because they aren't smart enough to realize driving through 8 trees probably isn't was I wanted them to do, or of any benefit. I don't have a problem with micromanagement in games, but there has to be a bit of give and take. I admit, I didn't really have a problem with my troops, it was mostly my amour that couldn't figure it out. Again, I don't know why it did that, I'm just saying from a unbiased standpoint it seemed odd. Concerning the LOS. My units weren't popping up, the enemy was. An example is when I was doing the training mission, and my snipers were trying to shoot the AT gun crew, the AT gun would appear, and disappear...it did this a bunch until my units finally saw it. It didn't make sense to me that I could see the troop I killed laying there on the ground, but not the gun. This is a small example how when I got to the bigger battle, things were popping up and disappearing all over the place. Maybe there needs to be a Fog of War instead of LOS because then I would know what my troops were seeing, instead of just randomly getting wind of something and me reacting to it. It's like, I can see the entire map like I am the all seeing eye, but I can't see anything thats going on. I have no concept of where things are, where they have been, where my troop are looking, if they are paying attention.... Again, I understand your tone as this is your "baby" I am going on about, but I don't think I am ranting here. I am stating what I saw, in the time I played it, and backing up my findings when people respond. Sure, I could be playing the game instead of posting here, but I don't feel I need to. If I had pre-ordered it, then maybe I would, but the demo was put out to give people an idea of the game, and this is the idea I got from the amount I played it. I have stated in all of my posts that I didn't give it a very long shot, so how people take my posts are their own. You can discount me totally if you like, but this is what I saw and I don't think I'm wrong in saying how I feel. My computer may be having issues with this game, maybe I didn't look around long enough at the settings and controls, maybe I just suck at games, but I don't think I am ranting, or bashing this game for no reason, I am giving you one....just one persons opinion based on limited experience, and the people of this forum can either accept it, or go and find out for themselves. From the companies perspective, keeping emotions in check, and simply just making note of what I am saying might be worth it just for future reference. Maybe I have a few good points that you might want to look at, maybe I'm full of crap, how you take it is up to you. [ April 18, 2007, 04:29 AM: Message edited by: crazylegsmurphy ]

Oh, I am sure there are good things about this game. I personally didn't bother to try it long enough and as I stated in my first post I'm not sure how much validity you can put in my "review" simply because I really didn't try it that long. I have been looking at screenshots for a while, so I wasn't blown away by anything I saw. I was mostly waiting to get my hands on this game to see how it played out. Sure fancy models and trees are cool in a screenshot, but it means nothing if it's not fun to play. I am sure some will find the camera just fine, and I am sure after some getting used to it'll work just dandy for most people. I don't think it's hypocritical to say that I didn't feel like adjusting the camera. This is a demo, and in that I expect that I should be able to get the game up and running, and get a general feel for it before I buy it, if I have to spend 4 hours tweaking my graphics, controls, sound, etc just to get it running, well that to me says a lot about the game. As for the performance, I dunno why I was getting such bad framerates. I am running Vista, but with all my drivers up to date I am not having problems in any other game. My AA is actually turned off, so I can't see that being a factor. I dunno, I honestly admit that I have a bias in that I feel that even if I WERE to get the game running smooth, I personally found the environment to be boring to look at. The explosions look odd, the men have a really low poly count, the grass/trees look like someone once said on here "Teletubbies" land. I am of a generation of dynamic lighting an particle effects. I realize this isn't a game of eye candy, but it's like watching a movie and you see the character eat a computer generated fruit, when it's done well, you simply accept it and continue enjoying the movie, but when it's kinda bad, it's distracting and it takes you out of the moment. For me this game just doesn't have the "bells and whistles" that I have grown to expect in games. It feels "old", like I found the game in the discount bin at the video game trader store. I know that sounds harsh, but for me, it's an important thing. I complain about the unit indicators because that's all I see. I see a bunched up group of green icons that mean nothing to me. When you zoom out to try and get an idea of where you are on the map and gain your barrings, the icons turn into a line of green. I lost all personal care for any of my troops because I spent so much time looking for green icons that I didn't even care what they were. This may be my impatience and downfall, but I just couldn't connect to the game. I felt the whole time like I wish I could just get rid of all the trees/terrain/troops, and just control the icons. It almost seemed like the "detail" of the game was getting in the way. They added in all the moral, and all that into the game, but because it felt like I was just moving Icons around, I didn't care if they were scared, or tired, or hungry. I just wanted my truck to stop making parking lots, my men to stop jogging around like they were playing a game of touch football, and something give me some kind of indication my troops actually care. I know this next comparison will get me in trouble, but I am simply using it as an example; Company of Heroes. In that game your troops let you know whats happening based on audio response. When they are getting killed, you hear them yelling and screaming at you. It creates a sense of urgency that makes you care. When you scroll over to them, and a huge Tiger tank is booming in your ear, you get excited. In TOW, it's like this slow, drawn out battle, where troops don't say anything, the tanks sit there, the crows are cawing in the background.... So I'm not sure what to say. I may install the demo again tomorrow and mess with it a little more. I don't think I am writing this based on emotion because I really have no reason too. It cost me nothing to download the demo, and I have other games I like to play on my PC. For me, I simply couldn't get into the game. I felt like I was fighting to be a part of it, and simply couldn't. [ April 18, 2007, 04:21 AM: Message edited by: crazylegsmurphy ]

Well, I'm sorry to say that my demo review is going to be shorter than I first thought it would be for a few reasons, one being that I couldn't really play this game for more than an hour without it driving me insane in almost every way. To start, the loading times for missions are simply crazy. Maybe I expect too much, but I sitting there watching the little progress bar tick away for what seems like minutes is a really bad sign to me when multiplayer is involved. Once you get past that however, you'll notice that if you have your resolution cranked up, the menus/icons don't size to match really, so you're sitting there squinting at these little mashed up icons trying to figure out what you're looking at. Of course, this doesn't last long at all because you're forced to start turning off features and busting down the resolution because my fears of this game were quite apparent pretty quick. The animation is simply jumpy. My 8800 GTS video card did nothing for me as I was knocking back the details trying to get my PC to at least play the game with some kind of smoothness. I finally cranked the detail down to nothing and then started to realize that half the skipping was probably an illusion brought about by, I'm sorry to say, really bad animation. The troops look like ol' school Nintendo characters as they pop in and out of trenches, jog along the ground, stop, jog... The path finding of the vehicles was so bad I almost shut the game off in the first 5 minutes because I ordered a truck to transport my AT gun to a different part of the map, and it decided that instead of drive down the road, it would drive through every tree right next to the road. Not only was it totally impossible that this truck could actually knock over like 8 trees and keep going, but it got shot up pretty bad because it decided to do a little forestry. I felt also like I was fighting the camera the whole time. I saw that there were adjustments that could be made, but I simply didn't feel like trying to tweak it just so I could get to the action. While I understand there is a certain amount of learning curve to this process, it just seemed like it didn't make any sense to have the camera function the way it did. It always felt like what would naturally seem the way to move the camera, I was always finding myself 12 miles above the action trying to figure out where everything was, and then actually getting to it was another story...you had to press the mouse forward, then try to guess that you were by your troops, then use the scroll wheel to move up and down. I'm sure I would have gotten it, but by this point I was just staring at the screen, watching my little green circles run all over the place wondering when I was going to feel I was actually part of this war. At this point admittedly I was getting to the point where I didn't care much anyway. The frame rate was getting on my nerves, the sound wasn't impressing me, I couldn't find half my guys, when I clicked on the mini-map it wouldn't actually take me where I wanted to be, my vehicles weren't doing anything I wanted them too, the computer was rushing my troops and because the LOS just makes them pop up, and then disappear randomly, it just created this strange sensation like I was watching a bad myspace page where things were flashing, and popping up. And so as my MG rattled off another round that sounded like a kid who put a hockey card in the spokes of his bike tire, I simply found myself done with this game. I admire the developers for making a game with as little resources as they have, but I think this game was one of those ones like Falcon 4.0 back in the day where the idea was there, but the actual implementation just took so long that the technology was dated before it even began. I understand that most of this game was made without huge budgets, and I'm not saying I could make one any better at all, but by not taking advantage of the newest technologies, this game is maxing out my machine, when it really shouldn't. I will drop by here every few months and see how the mods are going, see how things look after a few patches and a few tweaks, and maybe I'll try it again in the future, but as it stands now, I am moving on. Good luck! Jeff

My thoughts are that it seems like it could be fun, but the sounds are weak!! I dunno what it is, but nothing feels "alive". The guns sound pansy, the AT guns don't recoil, the tanks don't have any response to the physics of a shell being blasted out of the turret.The men kinda jog along without a care. I mean, I know it's strange, but I found myself just kinda sitting there, with a nonchalant look on my face not really caring that an AT gun is shooting at my snipers, or that my tank is being attacked. My troops kinda lacked personality too...they just shouted back at me, and then went about firing like they were watching the football game in the other room at Thanksgiving while the wife talked about sewing class. I'll give it a bit more of a work over and then come back here and let you know what I think no matter if you care or not!

I don't mean to sound like a total dingus, but I just watched that video and I actually shuddered when I heard some of the sounds... HUZZAAA!! I mean...they may as well been shouting, "I'm Tims little brother, they let me do the voices because I work for donuts!" I know I am being sarcastic, but please tell me you can shut these off, or mod them or something. Oh, and how come some sounds come across as big and worldly (meaning the echo and feel like the fill the world) and some (Like the smaller arms) just sound like they are the same sound over, and over again, and they cut off with no atmospheric presence. Is this just a limit of the video? I suppose I'll ask this question. Why not, instead of posting a 12 minute video of those horrible sounding planes bombing over and over again, post a smaller video, of very high quality, of some of the more exciting weapons? I would rather see a 2 minute video of full frame rates, and high quality sound, than a 12 minute video that is choppy, and sounds like I recorded my Vanilla Ice Tape using a cellphone.

no offence, but I'm simply not buying this excuse. I have seen random kids put countless YouTube videos up of other games and none of them show this kind of frame reduction. This is honestly my biggest concern about this game and has kept me from ordering it up until now. Almost every video I have seen shows really jumpy gameplay and very outdated sounds/graphics. As well, I have a pretty good rig here, and this games engine seems to not be taking advantage of any of it. I may me misinformed, but it really seems like my $500 video card may as well be a onboard one because the game hasn't made mention of any features that take advantage of the current graphics engines. If I am wrong someone please correct me. Where is the dynamic lighting, where are the smoke effects, and the other countless perks. And before someone goes off on me about how this isn't meant to be graphics crazy, it's supposed to be realistic...I feel that is an excuse people give when they know that the game looks like a flight simulator from 1992...falcon 4.0 anyone? I know I sound a little bitchy. The mods were really awesome to answer my questions in my first post here, but as I have come back more and more and as the date gets closer to release....maybe I am looking at this all wrong...before I continue, is this company even capable of these things? I don't mean that as an insult, I am simply asking if the company who made this game have the resources to do what I am wondering about, or am I expecting more than is able?

I kinda have to agree with the original poster. Don't get me wrong, the mods/designers are totally awesome when it comes to explaining things and addressing issues. The thing is that every video I have seen of this game looks choppy and slow. Not only that, but the graphics on some things are simply dated looking. I admit I have been spoiled by Company of Heroes (releasing a DX10 patch soon) so when I see WWII graphics and animations like that my mouth waters. When I watched the last video, there was what looked to be an M10, and when it fired, it just didn't feel right to me. The tank didn't react very much with the force of the shot, the "smoke" that came out the front looked "weak" and the explosions were the same 2D looking animation over and over. I understand as well that there are limitations, but as the OP said, I have yet to see a video where the game justifies the drop in graphics. Like it was already said, it's great if the world is huge, but it means nothing if there are only a few troops and tanks. I would rather see smaller maps, and bumped up graphics. Anyway, I have a lot of interest in this game, but I am going to have to wait for the demo.

YAY! I win! You hear that suckers!

Hello Everyone, This is my first post on these forums, and it’s going to be a doozy! I first heard about this game over at the Company of Heroes forum where another member,, who was looking for a game with more realism, suggested that we take a look at this game. Well, after looking through pretty much every page on the main site I must say that I am quite intrigued by this game so far. I am almost 100% convinced I am going to give this game a try, but there were a few nagging questions I wasn’t able to find the answers too…and maybe you guys could help. After watching some of the game play videos I couldn’t help but notice that in my opinion, while most of the graphics look quite good, some of the animation seemed quite stiff. For example, there is one video where what looks to be German troops are running from a tank. One of the troops must cross a trench and to my surprise he just popped down inside and popped right back up on the other and kept running. It struck me as a little odd that a game with so much realism would have troops behave so unrealistically in the sense that there seemed to be little in the way of animation that would suggest it actually took effort to get out of a 8 foot trench. Secondly, I noticed that the animation for the explosions seemed to be the same 2D animation every time. There was one instance where a bombing run hit the ground, and the same, stark black dirt cloud went up every time. As well, while watching the video’s I also noticed that the animation looked quite “choppy”. It’s especially noticeable to me when the troops are running as they seem to stutter along the ground. These three examples bring me to my first question. Have some of the animation/graphics been updated for the final release? As an owner of an Nvidia 8800 GTS card, and Windows Vista I am wondering if this game has any plans to take advantage of the DirectX 10 capabilities of this new hardware and software. If not, what are the current capabilities of the game to take advantage of higher end video cards? I also have a quick list of questions I am wondering about after viewing the screens. - Is the player able to turn off/change what looks to be default graphic that floats above the heads of the units? Personally, this is really the ugliest graphic I have seen in the game so far, and while I realize it probably serves its function, I already find them to be quite a distraction. In Company of Heroes (which offers a similar icon) the icon is very subtle while still getting the unit information and health across. I have actually played a lot of that game, and I can tell you that I have never found it to be a distraction. In ToW however, it seems that the big circular graphic would become quite annoying as the units became bunched up. Of course, as a graphic artist by trade, this is more of a visual nitpick than anything else, I just feel that keeping the graphic more subtle will keep it from taking away from the graphics of the game. Here is an example of what I mean, on the left, the visual style of the troops is overshadowed by these huge green “balloons” overlapping. http://www.battlefront.com/products/tow/screenshots2/images/ww2%202007-02-03%2015-51-54-89.jpg - Is there a default camera view? What I mean is that in Company of Heroes you also have the ability to free float the camera around, but I have found that the default view is what allows me to regain my bearings and figure out where I am. - Does this game support widescreen resolutions? In all the screenshots I have seen, it appears that they are all 4:3 ratio. I have a 24” widescreen and I am wondering if this game will support high resolutions at widescreen? And finally, I have decided to add in my suggestions. I’m not sure if they are welcome or not, but perhaps a fresh pair of trained eyes might help. The only real suggestions I have are graphical ones. While the game looks good, there are a few things I noticed that stand out to me as distracting. I already mentioned the “green balloons” above the units, but I really think that these would work much better if they were toned down, or slightly reworked. Perhaps getting rid of the circle altogether and just using the “stroke” around the unit icon to portray the faction would help. Tank tracks – Something just gets to me about the tracks left behind from the Armour. I think that all it would take is to knock back the stark blackness of the tracks to something a little more subtle. It also seemed that the tracks behave like those old RTS games where they disappear, a short while behind the tank. I remember this sort of thing in the old Nintendo games and it really comes across more as an animation, than a real world consequence to a tank moving. Perhaps it would work better if possible to have the tracks start out more subtle, and then fade slowly over time and distance. This would help the other players to follow tank tracks if needed, and give a nice overall look of a war torn battlefield. Menus – No offence, but the menus really look dated to me. If it weren’t for the fancy new 3D graphics in the upper portion of the screen I would swear this game was from the mid 1990’s. While it totally looks functional, it really doesn’t seem to fit with the game style and instead of evoking a WWII feeling, it comes across lacking personality. Not only that, but there are certain things that just look unfinished to me personally, such as various graphics competing for space, images hugging the sides of the boxes, and in some cases (such as the unit overview screens) the backgrounds are competing with the menus. Here is an example; you can see how where in the Coaxial and AP boxes the graphics are butting up against the edges of the box, this really creates a cluttered and unfinished look to me. ttp://www.battlefront.com/products/tow/screenshots2/images/ww2%202007-02-03%2015-18-30-62.jpg And finally, the only other little nitpick I have is the graphic for the “directional arrow” I see in many of the screens. To me, this arrow doesn’t really help to convey any sense of direction in the 3D environment. Aside from it being slightly ugly in design, because it kind of sits at this funny angle it doesn’t really follow the lay of the land well. As you can see in the following pictures, the arrow just seems to point in this awkward direction no matter where it’s pointing. http://www.battlefront.com/products/tow/screenshots2/images/ww2%202007-02-03%2018-27-05-92.jpg http://www.battlefront.com/products/tow/screenshots2/images/ww2%202007-02-03%2015-57-54-94.jpg As you can see, the head of the arrow just kind of stays at that strange angle, and no matter where it’s pointing, it always looks like it’s pointing up to the top of the screen. There is nothing in that arrow that conveys a sense of depth or direction. The most obvious fix would be to have the arrow follow the contour of the land to the target with a nice semi-transparent graphic that would give the player the sense of 3D space the units must encounter to get to, or hit the target. If that isn’t possible, the arrow should at least stay on the same plane as the 3D world so it appears to be part of it. The following is a quick example of the arrow, and the unit type that could be done to make them a little nicer. Obviously I only spent about 3 minutes on each, but you get the idea. http://www.mmmyeah.com/fedora/tow.jpg With that, I think this game is looking to be one of the coolest RTS’ this year and I am really looking forward to giving it a try. Please don’t take my suggestions as me bashing the game, I think it looks really cool, I just felt that a little constructive criticism might help. Patiently awaiting, Jeff