blue division

Khruschev, like the Stalin was a big fan of trains actually. They thought they were safer as there was less chance of sabotage. Please read a Soviet history of the second world war.

If you knew anything about airpower at all and its use in interdiction, you would know that it can only slow down the enemy realistically. Which is what it did in France. If you want to use a source, please understand it first. Otherwise there is no point.

Right alongside their massive tank building industry. they relocated a military industry to safety across the Urals. How much harder is it to adapt machine tools to build trucks rather than tanks? </font>

Ho ho ho.

WRONG. If I go out tonight with a spanner and remove all of the bolts on one of the rails on a bend, the train will derail. Simple as that.

Thank you for proving my point. I said railways are too easy to interdict, you have just reinforced my point a thousand fold. If one guy with a spanner can derail a train, think what you can do with an Army and Airforce. Case closed. Thanks for that.

Oh dear... Can someone else talk to this man about the Allied interdiction effort and it's effect on the German Army in NWE?

So perhaps you can point me to the huge Soviet motor industry of the 1930's.

Are we talking about summer 1944? If we are, then: Nope. When the Russian attacked in Summer 1944, I bet the ground was baked solid. Even if it is wet, I bet they just chopped trees down and laid the logs down on the mud. If there is nothing to lay down, then they might be in trouble.

Never said they were the be-all and end-all of the Soviet triumph. My line of reasoning was that they ALLOWED the Soviets to conduct large scale deep offensive manoeuvres in 1944/5, and also to sustain such distances as were achieved in such a time as it took. Nothing more, nothing less. Saying 'allowed' is not saying that they were the entire reason and method for the success. After all, where would the US Army in Iraq be without motorized transport? By the way, along the line of this discussion, someone suggested that you can use railways to do the same thing (as trucks). That is sustain an offensive across ground that has been won. Does anyone here know how easy it is to interdict a railway system (using air power)? One line, fixed in place, lots of bridges, easily obervable from the air, with trains that give off clouds of smoke observable from the air for miles. At night, also observable for miles from the sparks. Please... This is the second world war we are talking about, not the First. Trains were for the rear, not the front.

Who said I am whingeing?

I notice that none of the 3 musketeers has come back with anything of substance to say about Khruschev being a political commissar. I also note that he had rank of Lieutenant General. As well as being one of the 4 closest confidants of Stalin.

I think you need to tone down the rhetoric, please. rant ( P ) Pronunciation Key (rnt) v. rant·ed, rant·ing, rants v. intr. To speak or write in a angry or violent manner; rave.

I told you to put the cookery books away, Andreas. You are are getting confused now.

'When you have no basis for an argument, abuse the plaintiff. ' Cicero.

From this State Department document : http://dosfan.lib.uic.edu/ERC/frus/frus58-60x1/12soviet6.html 'Mr. Khrushchev then, as I recall, recounted some incidents from the war in Russia. He said he was the "political commander" (in this capacity holding a position parallel to that of the military commander) of a field army on the southern front in the Kiev area. At one point in the German advance, in spite of great efforts the Russians had made to save this revered city, encirclement of their whole force had become imminent and he and his military commander has issued orders to withdraw. ...' Looks like Khruschev was issuing orders to Soviet Army groups. Please keep going. It's good to be cheered up on a Friday.

First: Read a 10th grade book on the second world war. Next: Read a 10th grade book on the Soviet Union. Suitably equipped, you should be able to read this. It is an academic document, so it may go over your head. http://www.sovietarmy.com/documents/zampolit.html

I demand a source for Khruschev's alleged size - preferably from his tailor or his wife.

Oh dear, ad nauseum .... Do you know what political commisars did in the Red Army before 1943? Where do we begin with you?

HEAT weapons tend to kill tanks by creating a critical amount of pressure within the tank when they penetrate. Very unpleasant for anyone inside. They often leave very little damage to the tank itself - just a small hole in the armour.

I know the Germans always went for the turret with hand-held AT weapons. More chance of injuring the crew.

I don't think political commissars were assigned to tank crews, Big Duke. Perhaps you have a reference or quotation that proves otherwise.

I don't think Khruschev could have fitted through the hatch of a tank.

Yawn. (Stretch...)

Yawn.