dd77

puunt

The grosse Gewehrpanzergranate ('42) could penetrate 70mm of armor and was widely used. Later developments and other models could penetrate even more.

If there's one thing I know in terms of HMGs, its the m2 .50. I was in the 6th MT in the marines and we trained on the .50 all the time. If he's still convinced a .50 bmg can go through 3 inches of armor, let him know that the US military would gladly pay top dollar to learn such secrets

A comment on another thread (not here) on that pdf: "page 8 has the bbl. size at L65 or L57, a quick search comes up with no such german size.. so i would guess the germans measured it difrently.. and it was a L55 and a L55 is the same gun as the 232/pz2 page 10 has many a type of ammo.. each would have a difrent MV... it hard to say with it was tested with for the stats.." The poster is suggesting that the flak 30 and the 232/p2 are indeed the same gun (just measured differently by the respective countries). Which, if true, puts me back at the original Q.

check the double edit, looks like we reposted at the same time

Unless I'm reading it wrong, the gun in the doc is the same gun used, just the AAA model? Not trying to stir the pot, just wondering why some things say the things they do Any idea where the devs got their 36mm of pen from? 2nd edit: OIC. Got it. Ok so, next Q is where might I find something that goes to 36mm for the l/55? If I google it (grant it, not the most reliable way) I get things like : This table Where you will notice there is a pzgr value of 20mm @ 100m (30 deg) However, there is an AP value of 31mm @ 100m (30 deg) which might be a long the lines of CMAKs source? So whats the difference in numbers and make of the AP shot and the pzgr 39? [ July 04, 2004, 08:13 AM: Message edited by: dd77 ]

Oh and if you are so inclined, look at: http://www.lanpartyworld.com/ww2/files/German%20light%20AA%20and%20AT%20guns.pdf (1942 tests, scanned and PDFd) which on pg 11, you'll see a 48mm penetration for the 20mm AP.

The CMAK ingame kwk30 l/55 (on the scout cars / pz 2) has a penetration of 36mm for its standard ammo. Browsing around on the net I noticed that that many sites have the 20mm l/55 penetration as low as 20mm (100m & 30 degrees) and as high as 48mm according to a 1942 test done (report PDF'd). Just curious as to why there is such a large discrepency and how CMAK arrived at its 36mm.

Not sports page stuff, but not links or references to what I'm after obviously I'm not looking for general statements.

one more punt for the physics/formulas

Wonder if we can get a dev in here to put some light on how they calculate it (specifics) or the sources they used.

I've seen it called both flaking and spalling, and in game the message is says flaking, so I used that. At any rate, I know what it is in general, but I'm looking for more specifcs on how to approximate/guestimate what rounds may or may not cause flaking/spalling on various armor types / thickness. IIRC HESH was originally designed to be used against concrete fortifications (which works well) and it was soon found out that it worked very well vs tanks due to spalling. Modern armor seems to be able to deal with HESH rounds well however. Anyrate, thats a tangent. Back to where I can get the details

What exactly does it take create flaking? (I know what it is) Lets say you have a 60mm plate, nothing fancy, and its struck head on (90) by some round but doesn't penetrate. How "hard" does that round have to hit for there to be a chance of flaking and is there any where I can read up on the finer details?