Dandelion
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Posts posted by Dandelion
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An interesting note is that the Germnas did this in light of their own development of magnetic mines. As a precaution one might say. In fact, the Soviet scale of use of such mines did not warrant Zimmerit in the first place.
All the best
Dandelion
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"I know what appointed means but not when it pertains to getting a rank." [lcm1947]
Well sir, rank follows the man while appointment follows the organisation. Appointment is position within an organisation. A job, if You like.
Rank indicated level and nature of training in an individual. His qualifications. It (ideally) determined his access to jobs in the army (appointments).
Rank and function were so closely adapted to eachother that one can normally assume coherence, e.g. that a captain (the rank) will be a company commander (the job). But realities of war of course caused deviations. Unlike in civilian life though, one recieved pay in accordance with title (rank), not actual job (appointment).
Sincerely
Dandelion
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West Point, yes, that would make sense. The person mentioned is an officer. Class of 28, as in graduated from West Point in 1928 then? That would give him 14 years service by 1942. What rank would such a man be at after 14 years of service? Would Captain or Major be reasonable? Sounds like a not too rocketeering career.
Dandelion
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"A Lance Corporal in the British Army was not a rank at all - it was an appointment."[Dorosh]
I see. Didn't know that. I was thinking on somebody in particular with that comparison. I had a friend when I was in the service, in our UK "friend" Rgt the Ox and Bucks, who was a lance corporal (this was thirteen years ago so I assume he is no longer at that rank). We met only a couple of times, in the UK and Germany, me being at exchange a few rounds, and though we got along remarkably well, it was probably more due to my youthful anglophilia than anything else. No idea what became of him. At any rate, he had a chevron on his arm. I interpreted this (never asked I must admit) as signifying the rank of lance-corporal, thus thought it was a rating proper. When I likened the Gefreiter to the lance corporal, it was the duties of this fellow I had in mind. But now that you inform me of this, I realise that of course a Spiess also carried signifying stripes on his arm, even though this was also an appointment. My mistake there.
"Incidentally, as you may know, the latter rank was created especially for 12 year career NCOs between the wars, and was a reward for their long service."[Dorosh]
Actually I did not know this, and noted it with great interest. I am certainly not under the impression that you have a lot to learn about WWII German Armed forces. In fact, never met a non-German/Austrian who could point out this level of detail in a correspondence before.
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Some elaboration on the lack of properly rated Spiess personnel. I am not sure how to, as you hit the problem head on nail. Shortage. But not primarily due to high attrition rates of Hauptfeldwebels as such. The structure of the problem can be described as follows.
The German Heer expanded at a crippling rate. Speaking infantry divisions exclusively, she had 39 of them in 1939, some 137 by may 1940, some 175 by july 1941, some 226 by 1943 and some 240 by 1945. The expansion was eventually more and more theoretical, but this did not entirely eliminate the need for command cadre for new units. The expansion took place with simultaneous campaigning, with the attrition and casualty rates this meant. An attrition rate which in the case of the Heer alone eventually reached some 3 250 000 people.
One result was that by july 1941, the relative lack of NCOs was at some 11% in the average infantry division, including Mot. and Teilmot. divisions but not Geb. (may have been the same for Geb. but I wouldnt know). Percentage is comparing Sollstärke with Instande, ending up with a negative number. This shortage was to increase steadily all the way to Stunde Null.
By July 1941, the manpower shortage other ranks had not yet made itself felt in ernest (as it was to do about a year later). Instead, Divisions beefed their totals by having surplus EM to compensate lack of NCOs. Quite a few divisions managed to reach Sollstärke this way, speaking total numbers.
In addition, there was a lack of infantry officers. This was not just a problem in itself, it also created an increased need for competent NCO cadre in the "sabre/bayonet" units. Both to compensate lack of officers and to weigh up the decreasing quality of new officers.
Due to the constant high attrition rate, combat units were at the end of this stick, feeling most acutely the effects of the problem.
Activities in the divisional F.E.-Btl. NCO schools increased steadily, as did field promotions, but the problem not only remained but worsened.
All in all, the shortages created a forward motion throughout the German Armed Forces. Competent personnel in good shape were taken from non-combat duties and sent forward either to replace casualties or to be used for new units. The more drastic of these efforts are generally known - workers taken out of factories to be replaced by slave labor, for example. Or Luftwaffe ground personnel formed into infantry divisions. The NCOs were merely in particular short supply, thus more exposed to the forward transfer motion. This phenonemum can often quite easily be observed in divisional rosters, if one is looking for it. Names keep changing places with time, and all of them from left to right. i.e. forward to the line. Except the odd "section 8" moving the other way (see, I have learned a new word
)The Spiess was mong the first to go. An experienced old veteran in a position enjoying either trust and confidence or, failing that, at least authority in his unit. His duties as such could by and large be performed by any freshly baked NCO with basic administrative aptitude. By July 41 either Wehrkreis or combat units will have dragged this precious commodity off and he will not again be replaced by an NCO of equal experience.
So, even without any Spiess KIAs, they were still rapidly decimated.
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I was wondering. An Army expanding as rapidly as the US, forming around only 5 regular divisions, must reasonably have had the same kind of problems. How many experienced NCOs could they have had to distribute? Even if they did not experience the attrition rates, they did expand much faster. Any input on this?
Yours sincerely
Dandelion
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OK so source code is unlikely to become available short of an SAS raid on BTS Hq. But editing visual appearance has been made possible - encouraged in fact - from the outset. I figure the 3D models are very much part of the visual appearance of the game. No matter how fine mod, the men still have their noses all the way down to the chin and so on. So, does anyone know of any possibility of editing the 3D figures in the game? I would much appreciate any tip.
Yours
Dandelion
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MOH, of course! Why didnt I think of that, great tip.
I have been using sounds from the Close Combat series. Rather laborious business extracting and adapting them, and not many are very good either.
Hidden and Dangerous have a few files that I use for humor purposes. I love the highly indignant way the Germans say "Engländer!", in that "what-did-I-do-to-deserve-this?" tone. But I use these off and on over the years. One tires of jokes.
But I'll get right on mixing with my MOH sound files now...
Yours
Dandelion
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What a rotter
Now the same thing happends to me. He must have taken it down. Very recently too. I downloaded it just a few days ago.
Well, I have deleted my own file, and like Kingfish I do not have the MOD associated with the scenario. I never did. The designer promises that the scenario looks really stupid without the MOD.
Not sure where to go from here, but I guess contact with the Kessel crew is the one way forward.
All the best
Dandelion
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Comment on Gefreiter:
No, it was not an NCO rank, but nor are all corporals. I forgot that the Lance-Corporal was not present in US armies in WWII
In my opinion, the Gefreiter closely resembles the lance corporal. My grandfather served in the war and progressed from Schütze to, eventually, Major. He wrote a letter to my grandma upon becoming Gefreiter in 38. The liberation from manual labor simply ment no potato-peeling or WC cleaning for him anymore. The man was quite delighted. It says nothing about Oberschütze though. Your interpretation makes sense. The Gefreiter might simply be the EM who had expressed interest in or shown aptitude for further training. In contrast to the Oberschütze.
Comment on Spiess:
I thought the Spiess was thus nicked because of the Halberds they used to carry, to keep men in line, under Fredrick the Great.
A difference here is that while 1st Sgt is a rating and rank, Hauptfeldwebel is not. It is a function. The actual rank of the Spiess would ideally be Stabs- or Oberfeldwebel (SS-Sturm- or Hauptscharführer). But perhaps more normally well below this, being "diensttuer" (acting), as experienced NCOs were needed for combat service.
But anyway, lets stick to penetrating the US Army here
All the best
Dandelion
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...but you could always try this one, the scenario is here also.
http://ns9.super-hosts.com/~dragonlair.net/combatmission/
Cheers
Dandelion
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Thats odd. The link works fine for me.
An interesting site with very ambitious people making scenarios there.
Dandelion
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It is absolutely stunning what amounts of information one can gather here in short time. Thank you all. I will keep checking the thread as some questions remain unanswered. Meanwhile, I have som follow-up questions if you will bare with me.
Here goes:
1D Concerning the rations, which variant would be the one they called "Spam"? Even the officers seemed to hate Spam.
2D Concerning the Pvt-Pfc, did the promotion to Pfc bring about other advantages than increased pay? I am thinking about the German system of "Gefreiter", usually translated to "Corporal" but literally meaning "liberated". Liberation is from manual labour. I believe the term "corporal" has the same heritage. Was the Pfc anything like this? Or was it more like the "Oberschütze" german rating. This title you earned after "completing training" (i.e. after a certain time of service). It didnt really mean a lot except you got a patch on the arm and slightly higher status, and you had to take poart in the training of recruits.
3D The 1st Sgt. He is comparable then to the "Spiess"? (Senior coy NCO in Heer)
4D Let me see if I got this: National Guard units were recruited geographically, and there were 19 of them. And as I understand it there were 5 professional divisioins to start with. This means that for the other forty-or-so, one could live in, say, NY and yet be called up to a division located in, say, California, and there do service with soldiers from all over the US?
5D Company clerk - this is very interesting. There appears to have been three types of clerks in the US Inf Coy Hq WWII, is this structure familiar? - Coy Clerk, Forward Clerk and Assistant Clerk. The Coy clerk seems to be a Sgt, in effect serving at Rgt Hq aloing withther Supply Sgt. The Forward Clerk seemed the boss-clerk and at his disposal he apperas to have had at least two assistant clerks. They appear to have been used as signallers in combat - or more specifically, runners. This make any sense? And these men, were they permanently clerks or were they on rotating service from ordinary rifle squads?
6D And finally - 2.5% interest rate?!?! Give me the phonenumber to that bank right away!
About the slang: I was, among other sources, reading "The letters home", a compilation of letters from US soldiers serving in the Pacific in 42-43. This is part of a book series with just such letters from all kinds of wars. Anyway, much of the slang that puzzled me came from here. A soldier from NY (Queens, it appears) complains very bitterly that he was forced to serve with "Hicks". Nobody in his unit was "like him". A soldier from Philadelphia kept calling his fellow servicemen "hep" or not "hep". A SSgt complains that his new CO is a "Montana Cornball". This S/Sgt was as I understand it from Virginia someplace. Another S/Sgt, serving in what appears to be an all-Texas division, makes jokes about an officer who is not a southerner, but a "class of 28er" and kept saying "hunh?" because he was unable to understand the Texas dialect spoken by everyone else.
Dandelion
So far with no sig...
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The finer details of US Army organisations eludes me. Specifically, I would very much appreciate answers to the following questions:
1 What does the term "NMI" mean when used as suffix to the rank of an NCO?
2 What does ASN mean? Used as suffix also, all ranks apparently.
3 Apart from using Staff Sergeants - a function not present in most European armies and difficult enough to understand - Staff Sergeants in the Army (at least the regular divisions) were apparently divided into "Guides" and "Leaders". What does that mean?
4 The two designateed platoon scouts of infantry platoons, were they part of the squads or part of the platoon hq?
5 The US Army used the pair of CO and Exec officer, at least at Coy, Bn and Rgt level. All armies used CO and assistant CO of some kind. I just don't get the titles. What does it mean - Exec? Normally, the CO would be the executing echelon of orders in a unit.
6 What is the "Regimental S1"?
7 What does CCC mean (i.e. the organisation - not variants of the term C3I)?
8 Can it be confirmed or denied that a US Army infantry squad (discounting special forces of all kinds) contained twelve men, of which at least one (probably two) a corporal, plus one sergeant as squad leader? And that four such squads made up the platoon (semi-divided in two sections?), to which one must add two staff segreants (one "guide" and one "leader") of which only one was actually called "platoon sergeant" (which one? why?). That three such platoons plus a fourth heavy weapons platoon made up a company, to which one must add Coy Hq with CO, Exec, Mess sqd of three plus Mess Sgt, three forward clerks/signallers plus a company clerk who served at Rgt HQ, and a supply Sgt who also served at Rgt HQ, plus the all-important company First Sgt?
9 Speaking of which - which were the specific duties of the Coy First Sgt?
10 What was the meaning of the distinction Pvt and Pfc that was used?
11 Some US units - I speak now exclusively of infantry divisions - appear to be geographically homogenous, with the men (i.e. enlisted men) coming from a very specific area in the US. Others have men from all over that huge nation, from NY to California, Chicago to Texas. How come?
12 The mortar "section" of an infantry company, contained how many squads (assuming a squad had one 60mm mortar)? Did the heavy weapons platoon have their own Pltn Sgt? Guide?
Some equipment questions:
1B What is the full meaning of the abbreviation PX?
2B What is a Klaxon?
3B Is there anywhere one can find a comprehensive list of the alphabetically "coded" rations used by the US Army in WWII (you know, like C rations etc)?
US Army WWII slang questions:
1C "Cornball"?
2C "Class of 28er"?
3C "Hep"?
4C "Hick"?
5C "Section 8"?
6C Reading US Pacific material, I find that both officers and EM use the term "chap" every now and then. Sounding irrevocably British to me, I was wondering if this is a misconception, and this term might in fact once have been everybit as much a US term. Or if it wasnt ever, and the men were simply making fun of/being influenced by long-term contact with British and commonwealth troops/society at this front?
In hope of finding just the right know-it-all when you need him
Dandelion
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Hm. Sigh. Well, looks like Ill have to buy CMBB after all then...
Did they fix the machinegun problem too?
If so, would there be a patch incoming to fix it in CMBO too?
Dandelion
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Wouldn't know the answer to that one. Tell you what though, I'd ask these people if I were you: email ptrahan@wwiivets.com
I am sure they will answer. They are extensively presented at http://www.wwiivets.com/home.htm
They ought to know, as they were there.
Dandelion
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Right, your question Silvio. Actually I have never found any kind of compilation, but of course one could probably gather the necessary information using several different sites and searchwords. If CMBO British/Commonwealth is your need, I'll be able to help out some right here with what I've got in my library and HD. Here goes in order of appearance in unit list:
- Stuart V. Served in all UK/CW armoured divisions, namely in the Recce troops of the HQ Coy of the Amd Rgt, Amd Bn and Amd Recce Bn. These troops had a dozen honeys.
- Sherman II, phased out of frontline service by june 44, except in Italy. I guess the odd one could be found in Sherman equipped units.
- Sherman IIA, as well as Sherman IIC, in service only with 2nd Amd Rgt, 1st Polish Amd Div. UK/CW used this model only in Italy. Troops consisted of three IIA and one IIC.
- Sherman III and Sherman V, equipped all armoured brigades of the Guards, 11th, 7th (except 22nd) and 1st Polish Amd Div. Also equipped all Army Tank Brigades except those listed under Churchill below. Platoons/troops consisted of three V and one VC. VC model also saw service in Cromwell units until arrival of Challenger. In the case of 22nd Amd Bde, they were never replaced by Challengers.
- Cromwell IV and Cromwell VII, in service with all Amd Recce Rgts, of which there was one per Amd Div. Also in service with 22nd Amd Bde/7 Amd Div. Troops consisted of three IV/VII plus one Sherman VC or Challenger.
- Cromwell VI and Cromwell VIII. In service originbally with Marine Armoured Support Group. Transfered to Cromwell Rgts after D landings. Serviced in all such Rgts in support troops, four to a troop plus IV/VII or Sherman for troop CO.
- Challenger, in service only with the Amd Recce Rgts of 7th, 11th, Gds and 1st Polish Amd divisions. The "fourth tank" in the troop.
- Churchill VI, Churchill VII and Churchill VIII, in service only with the Guards, 6th, 31st and 34th Army Tank Brigades. These brigades were semi-attacjed to infantry divisions and normally escorted by an armoured TD Rgt (i.e. Bn). Model VIII served in support troops.
- Crocodile, served exclusively with the 79th Amd Div. In this division there were three Crocodile units: 141st Regiment of the Royal Armoured Corps, 1st Fife and Forfar Yeomanry and 7 RTR, all forming the 31st Armoured Brigade. Usually Crocs were lent out in small numbers to other units though.
- Wolverine and Achilles, used in Antitank Regiments (usually but not always "horse" art Rgt), both in those of Amd Div and others. Too many to list. They operated in troops of four, often with scout car support (hunter-killer concept).
- Archer, appeared in very very small numbers in some corps level AT Regiments. Which ones are unknown to me. The first 4 were shipped to France in july 44 and they never reached large numbers in the west. Used more extensively in Italy.
- Sexton, served in Royal Horse Art Rgts and SP Field Art Rgts, both divisional and independent. Too many to list. Operated in troops of four. Gradually replaced Priest.
- AVRE, Armoured Vehicle Royal Engineers, served exclusively in the 79th Amd Div, 1st Assault Bde Royal Engineers. Organised in troops of six, operated in half troops of three.
- Comet, served only in 11th Amd division, replacing all Shermans and Cromwells in this division (i.e. served in both Amd Bdes and Amd Recce Rgt).
Hope this helps.
Dandelion
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Viceroy, no 8KRIH was not considered part of 22nd Bde, but in the 7th Amd Div all armoured vehicles carried the red stag of the 22nd Bde. It was painted immediately above the actual unit sign, i.e. on the right side (The divisional sign being on the left side). So below the stag you should see a Harp, the unit flash of the 8KRIH, if the Dingo belongs to this unit. It could of course be a liason vehicle from 5 RTR. They would have had about a dozen of them in their intercom troop. Commanders liked to nick them for scouting trips to the front.
Silvio - I'll get right back to you, wife just came home so I'll just have to cook some dinner here
Dandelion
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Hey I found a homepage with the symbol, here http://www.btinternet.com/~ian.a.paterson/orgarmour.htm#RR44.
The symbol is at the very bottom of this huge site, just scroll to the end of it. Looks a little strange, there must have been a modernised simplified version later on. The same?
Dandelion
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I am not sure but it could be a Cromwell from the 22nd Amd Brigade. This brigade had such a symbol, but just a head. It is the head of an elk/deer/stag, drawn in red, on a white background. You see the head from the side, sort of, only one eye visible. Both horns visible and the neck ends in a jagged line. This it?
Anyway, Cromwells only served in this brigade, plus the Amd Recce Rgt of 7, 11, Gds and Polish Amd Divisions. Is the tank a Cromwell?
Dandelion
[ March 03, 2003, 02:02 PM: Message edited by: Dandelion ]
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...just for reference, ASL means Advanced Squad Leader and can reasonably be considered - as Saddam would put it - the mother of all squad level tactical simulations. But no longer the prettiest daughter
In this (board)game, mortars (and mgs) are area weapons. They fire at an area and try to achieve as much effective firepower as possible (you roll the dice). If effective enough, vehicles are automatically damaged or destroyed. Thus, there is no individual tracing of projectiles or to-hit ratios.
Most of the CM engine is ASL model. Tank to tank combat, e.g., uses to hit number and then to kill number. The projectile you see is merely decoration. There is no tracing of rounds.
That said in case you are not familiar with ASL, which struck me as a possibility after all.
Dandelion
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Stoffel is quite right and head on nail - it was all about space limitations.
(I am, in spite of my newest membership number, an old hand here)
You will find, more than anything else I think, in those old debates the argument concerning resources. CM looks slightly primitive now, but was at the time cutting edge and extremely taxing for machines. Among the fanatics following the development (such as me) there were many who were worried that the game would require what was then extremely expensive machines. Whenever anything - anything at all - was included, there was heavy argument. Shouldnt this be left out? Put something else in? People spotted the slightest detail and brought it up. Even the dead bodies.
The focal point of this (limited resources) debate as I recall it was concerning 3D models - vehicles mainly. You will notice that there are quite a few common models left out of the game. You can surely guess what kind of debates went on concerning this
Why did BTS change their minds on corpses? I dont recall they ever telling us. I think the corpses appeared right about when the 3D models we able to run (they used to just walk, which made them "skate" when running). It cannot have been easy working at BTS at this time, in a perpetual hailstorm of mail. My guess would be that the machines developed and there were not as severe limitations on resources as it used to be.
As to the mortar and fifty - I dont recall any debate on this (but I do recall a debate on the lethality of the fifty, downfall patterns of mortar shells, the sound of mortar shells, the sound of a fifty ladidadidadi). But as you probably already know, CM leans somewhat on ASL and once upon a time leaned very heavily in that direction. The distinctions between categories of weapons do follow ASL pattern in this case. CM engine also make similar calculations as ASL, thus no "To Hit" for mortars would be natural. My guess would be it is part of this heritage.
Dandelion (i.e. Tommy)
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Oh thanks
I have been reading posts here for quite a few years actually. From when the development of what was to become CMBO was about half a year old I think. My sudden joining the membership ranks and posting was merely me being overwhelmed by this impulse that I might for once contribute and not simply indulge in my habitual parasiting on the excellent knowledge of others
Just now found that same list published though, in a more easy-to-read variant, sans comment on German pronounciation, at the already mentioned http://britmods.freehosting.net/voices.htm
Though I really think 2001 and 2004 should read "Auf dem Sprung" rather than "Auf zum Sprung". The first means "on the jump" literally but it also carries the same meaning as English "on the run", or in military lingo "on the double". The latter means "on to the jump", as if urging to make ready to perform a jump.
Good to learn that my missing 2121 should read "Nach den Seiten sichern", i.e. secure the flanks. My missing 2017 should apparently read "Nichts wie weg hier", meaning "nothing like away (out of) here", a very strange syntax. All evident on the in many more ways than this excellent site at the above URL.
Dandelion
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There are tons of SS camo available for study over the internet. Sadly, much of this is bogus, being various forms of Warsaw-Bloc patterns never used by SS (but often similar), now sold as "SS" camos by Militaria agents.
Studying regulation SS camos is also difficult, because there weren't hardly any around.
The Heer and Luftwaffe had regulation camo patterns, of which those used for tents are numerically the most important. There were sniper smocks and Luftwaffe ground troop smocks, including a para smock (technically a flying troop smock), also. But mostly, soldiers made smocks, helmet covers or ponchos of bits of tent, and in some cases they were designed for this use.
Soldiers and units improvised. Camo smocks were considered part of field adaption, not uniform regulation, at the time. So they picked up and used whatever they felt locally useful. Studying photos looking for regulation or parttern, you will become very confused
As for the SS, the patterns mentioned above (Eichenlaubmuster, Palme etc) were all used. However, the coloring of the cloth was very different even when following these patterns, both because they used various suppliers throughout Europe and because the SS were mostly issued with various captured foreign uniforms (2nd Panzer SS for example, used old Polish uniforms, conquered in 1939 and slightly retailored to German patterns, but still brown, not grey - the 9th SS Panzer used mainly HJ and RAD uniforms slightly adapted, i.e. brown or light grey - there are endless such examples). The ageing and sunexposure qualities of these patterns varied. The blueish Eichenlaub pattern, as visible on the URL given above, was not normally bleached by sun, as seems to be the case in the pic. It darkened and became close to grey-blackish! This was due to the dying used, which among other things had tiny amounts of silver in it.
The only real attempt at standardisation was the M-42 and M-44. But these also looked very different, not only between units but also between individual soldiers. The M-42 was a smock (the one displayed on the URL given above), used outside regular uniform. It also came as helmet covers in some units, or the soldiers made their own from, the cloth. The M-44 was a uniform. It did not include helmet covers per regulation. It is very similar to the one original to CMBO SS units (because this uses M44 as model). Sometimes, soldiers made helmet covers out of this cloth too.
The 12th SS HJ, which was equipped after the introduction of M-44, sometimes actually look a little uniform in pictures, with more than one soldier wearing a pattern similar to the guy next to him. But variations were enormous even within this unit. Beside the point is perhaps that the HJ liked U-boat uniforms, both the black leather that Panzer crews used and other various uniform details, such as the warm polo-sweater and high rubber boots. A local hobby if you like.
SS soldiers mixed patterns at will. A picture of two KIA from 2nd SS Pz is telling. One is wearing M-44 pants (patternwise, but these are simply dyed regular field-greys, not issue M-44) with an Eichenlaub smock, way too large for him. It is the blueish pattern. The other soldier is simply wearing a large piece of tent as a giant poncho, over a regular uniform. The tent-poncho has a czech camo pattern, not German. Both soldiers have helmet covers made from tent cloth, regular German Army pattern.
So, as you can see, you are rather free in choosing the camos for you SS troops. The only regulation thing about them is that they looked generally irregular and rugged. Personally, I like and use the mixed-up, rugged look of the SS troops in the movie Saving Private Ryan. The complete mix of patterns and general worn-out and darkened look I feel well reflects the battered SS units. The reason for their being mixed is that they are various re-enactment groups hired for the movie. You can study them at http://www.warandpeace.sdhost.com/show_pictures/friday/index2.htm
I got good such uniforms from extracting graphics from the Hidden And Dangerous game, reworking it of course for CM use. The HD has a mod with the M42 patterns. I also use the "Eichenlaubmuster" mod, though slightly reworked to be darkened and more rugged, as available at CMHQ. It is nice to vary some. For pants, the SS can use - apart from the mods you mention - british pants (if darkened and given a slightly more brownish nuance), even if the 3D model for SS troops does not go well with ankle boots.
I also use CMBB (Demo only though) for ordinary Heer troops, as mentioned above. Though the helmets do not work, even if the Paratroops look really smart in the darker shade of grey it produces. For Paras, the "Luftwaffe Ground troop" pattern is brilliant, if you darken it considerably and recolor the collarpatches to pale yellow. You can easily make a helmet cloth from this pattern.
Hoping this helps
Dandelion
[ March 03, 2003, 10:06 AM: Message edited by: Dandelion ]
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....of course, the range problem does not only concern tanks and guns.
The normal engagement range for German infantry, as reflected by experience and incorporated in training, was 200 meters. In a defensive position, the enemy was never to be allowed to close to less than 200 meters before engaged. In a delaying defence, the enemy would be engaged at extreme distance, judged 800-1000 meters for infantry (rifle, mg infantry). 200 meters was considered assault range and the enemy was to be denied this. Of course, in CM, 200 meters is an extreme range for infantry, with little if any damage capacity.
For comparison, in ASL the regular German line infantry has effective range up to about 250 meters. The extreme range is some 500 meters. Point blank is some 50 meters. The light machinegun fires effectively to almost 300 meters, extreme limit being some 550 meters.
In the CMBO engine, meaningful results occur at 100 meters at the farthest, and usually only to targets moving in the open. That is in spite the fact that squads have their inherent light machinegun. Most combat occurs at point blank range. Given the limited amount of ammunition carried versus the need for results, it has to.
There was a telling episode within the CMMC 1 where regular German traning manuals were simply converted into CM text. Very little turned out to be useful, as hardly anything of infantry tactics worked in CM for varying reasons - range problems being one important. The dismal performance of the focal, all important MGs being another very important reason. It was said then that all of this would be corrected in CMBB. Maybe it is, I do not own it.
The Germans are not the main losers in the range error, the British are, with their range-and-accuracy/rifle-focused infantry which never come in to its own. Winners would be the Americans with their plethora of automatic and semi-automatic weapons.
The conclusion for CMBO for the time being is that:
- Dont use turretless tanks and
- The Tiger is still a useful battering ram but not worth the cost and
- Use smg infantry, skip rifle and machinegun units and
- engage at point blank.
Dandelion
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I am afraid that even if You did make maps with historical ranges, it would not help the Tiger in CM.
You see, I am quite convinced that the range and accuracy of this barrel is not reflected in the game.
Using the German Panzer inspectors AAR compilations of 1944 (which included 43 as appendix), I made scenarios reflecting the typical engagements as experienced by the Germans. This included detailed ranges, barrels and to-hit ratio, but I ignored kill-ratio (as it is very difficult to understand what the targets were, except for size and mobility). The CM results are nothing like the AAR results. The main difference being:
- German long range accuracy is not even half that claimed by the AAR, meaning the medium number of shots needed to hit a target at a certain range. This refers to both mobile and stationary targets.
- The difference between German and Western allied long range accuracy is not what it is claimed to be in the AAR. I have had problems establishing a percentage difference, but I generally felt there was a 20 percent deviance from AAR reports, to allied advantage. This may not be a very useful fact though, as German compilation began before the allies had landed in Normandy, and thus all German experience of West was from Africa and Italy by this time. Compilations for late 44 and 45 were never completed, but I know they are published nonetheless in a German book, that I however have yet to get my hands on.
My conclusion was that vehicles such as the Tiger but above all the Jagd- series cannot be used in their intended role in the CM engine. Namely that of hiding hull-down and firing at long range - a situation where lack of turret and poor side and rear armour has no meaningful effect. The situation requires accuracy to hit within one to three shots, after which position must be changed.
Of course, if you do not hit at all at such ranges, or hit the equal amount as the enemy, the whole idea rather backfires. You become just like the enemy, except you have no turret, no speed and exposed side and rear.
Dandelion
PS. It must have required some extremely cool tank crews to kill Tigers the way described with the Shermans. I wonder how many survived those attempts. Still, if you have no other choice...and Shermans were used mainly by the 1st Guards...
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More Re Land Mine Placement
in Combat Mission: Beyond Overlord
Posted
I´d like to read the answer to this one also, so I´ll just bump the thread some here...
Dandelion