[3 related topics, but split: Movies]

Zero to ten? I don't know, too many factors I reckon. Intensity of the fight, number of points of contact, size of my force, how much stuff the bad guys are throwing my way, tracking down spotting rounds you heard but didn't see.

As a rule of thumb it's probably once per platoon, as each tends to fight it's own little battle, plus some from the enemy point of view. I recently completed  the Blunting the Spear campaign for Red Thunder. It's battalion-sized and I'd say I watched an average of six replays per turn, sometimes a few more, sometimes less. Before contact and as the battle winds down it's less, sometimes none and during the most intense action, more.

Which leads to some interesting math... If I did indeed watch six replays per turn on average, I watched around 3,120 replays during the course of the campaign, which took me almost a month to complete. That's a lot of movies!

[How to read elevation on Soviet period maps?]

The only thing I think I know is that the numbers with decimal points, like the 133.5 along the bottom edge are point elevations in meters. How to interpolate the spaces between I don't know.

I've used this key on occasion to help me make sense of things, but not sure it's much use here.

https://s3.eu-west-2.amazonaws.com/redatlas/TM30-548_1958.pdf

I love maps, so will follow along and see where the thread leads and hopefully learn something. Good luck.

 

[Campaigns]

OK, I'll approach it from a different angle. Is there a way, in the selection screen, or in the initial general briefing, to identify the re-worked campaigns that were done after the release of SF2 so I can determine if these are included in recently purchased SF2 copies?

[Hunt mode - unrealistic exahaustion]

Not sure Bulletpoint, it's the training scenario in the demo. Terrain was forest/woods. Maybe it's just very hot?

Good post MOS, and I think all of that is pretty clear, my curiosity is more nuanced though. Why did the rifle squad tire in 100m when the scout squad could move in the same manner, through similar terrain over a kilometer without dropping below Ready? Heat, fitness, load, terrain and movement type all play a part we would assume.  My curiosity isn't about what causes fatigue, but more developing a feel for which causes how much of it. I know from experience that if you have a platoon and have one squad draw an extra 1000 rounds of ammo, it will tire before the other two squads. Is it absolute, that 10% more weight equals 10% more fatigue? Or is there more of a threshold sort of mechanic, where under a certain weight it has no/little effect, and over a certain amount there is a noticable effect?

So really, it's not what causes fatigue that I am curious about, but more subtly, which does how much, to whom and when? Are scouts more resistant to it all things being equal for example? Does an additional 500 rounds of ammo carried cause exactly half the additional 'fatigue load' that 1000 rounds would?  Honestly, it's all interwoven and I suspect that attempting to analyze it all is futile. It's a grey thing that isn't so easily distilled to black and white.

[Campaigns]

I'm burning right through Task Force Thunder, ten missions done and dusted.  I wondered though if the version of of SF2 I bought has all the latest, most up to date versions of each stock campaign? If SF2 was purchased and downloaded in the past two weeks will it have all the latest versions, the ones re-worked after the main release of SF2?

TFT is fun,  although the small maps mean tactical freedom is limited. A good introduction for me anyway. I loved the Dar al Abid as Sul  and Screen battles, hated the Objective Normandy mission, and the rest are shooting galleries

Not certain how many missions remain. Depends on the outcome of each perhaps? I had a peek at the Task Force Panther campaign, maybe I'll give that a go next. Any recommendations for a second campaign? Ideally, I'd like more room for maneuver than TFT allows. That first battle from Forging Steel was just about right, and maybe I'll return to that one at some point. A version of that with the enemy skill reduced would be great, as they might actually get out of their own holes instead of needing to be dragged out kicking and screaming and shooting.

[Spreading the Fausts Around]

Is that true? Because as you know it's been a commonly held belief around here over the years. It's been definitively disproven then? Of course I have no idea either way and anyway, having driven in the mud a lot it's surely better to go fast than slow if you want to keep going

What matters though is how it's programmed.

OK, if that's the case, it is still remarkable that none of that huge fleet bogged at all in that final battle I reckon.

[Spreading the Fausts Around]

^ True, that.

How's the battle going Bozowans?

Erwin, are you still playing this one?

 

[3 related topics, but split: WEGO vs RTS?]

I've dabbled in real-time, but it's much more messy, and my brain can't handle it. I watched a video on youtube the other day of a player playing the airfield battle from the Task Force Thunder campaign in real time and I could hardly take it. So inefficient and sloppy, with units forgotten about doing nothing, needless casualties and lack of real co-ordination. And just watching videos of Combat Mission is difficult for me as I am constantly rolling my mouse wheel to change the zoom to no avail since I'm watching a video. Derp derp.

On the other hand, the real-time player can more quickly react to events (though the real time factor means this only happens where you are watching) and can more quickly correct blunders.

No sir, give me WEGO everytime. In real time I miss so much that's going on, which aside from the tactical ramifications, is just undesirable from an enjoyment point of view for me. Actually WEGO is for me the best wargame system ever. As I like to say, going from tactical genius to nervous spectator never gets old. It's a system of action and consequence and frankly it's brilliant.

[Fire and Rubble]

Yeah, too many Flintstones memes will result. Not a fan of that one, though it wouldn't affect a purchase decision or whether I enjoy it, it's just a name.

I like

Across the Oder

Final Assault

Red Vengeance (maybe too much in that?)

Reckoning

Just a few I whipped up, not that you asked....:)

 

 

[Hunt mode - unrealistic exahaustion]

I'd like to know more about how this works.

I just bought SF2, but before doing so I tried the demo, and played the training scenario a couple of times. I noticed that when I dismounted a squad and moved them 100m they were 'tiring'. 50m were quick and 50m hunt.

Later I played the first mission in Forging Steel campaign. In this one I kept my infantry moving, using quick and hunt with few stops and they never went below normal and moved over a kilometer on foot. Of course these are scouts and the training scenario is a rifle squad. Maybe it's down to how much ammo they are carrying? Maybe engine differences,  fitness,  ambient temperature? 

[Campaigns]

I found the TF Panther campaign (and more) on 37mm's dropbox. Thanks man, that's quite the treasure trove.

[Campaigns]

Added to the playlist, thanks man. I wanted the first campaign I played to have the new toys of SF2 like drones, so TFT fits the bill. But SF1 level campaigns are perfectly fine too. Looks like this one might take a while to get through, but lining up the next one is good. TF Panther is not at TSD III, got a link?

 

Quote

You have to accept some difference as Chris modded some forces in the snitch for example

What's the snitch?

And about Forging Steel, apologies as it seems i either misunderstood or more likely glossed it over, but the description for the campaign includes this informative bit

It should be borne in mind that these Syrian forces are not Syrian as such – think of a highly trained and well equipped force such as the Russians. The missions are designed to stretch the abilities and tactics of the Bluefor. Question is are you as the commander up to it?

[Spreading the Fausts Around]

Dastardly!  It's a great story though and I can imagine the panic of a T-34 running amok in your rear. And to have it taken out at the moment of truth by a 185m rocket shot is emergent drama of the first order. The only thing that would be better is if the 'schreck shot was in flight at the end of the turn

[Campaigns]

Yes, I bought SF2 three days ago (big bundle) and it's my first modern CM title. Thanks to all for the recommendations, Task Force Thunder seems right up my alley and I had fun playing the first battle, even if it's a bit lopsided.

After the briefing I had a look at the map, and it's fairly self-evident how to proceed. Get your M1s up on the berm and let 'em rip. And that's what I did. Of all the hundreds of Combat Mission battles I've played, I can safely say that I've never caused more casualties in the second minute of any. Just brutal. It's awesome how fast an Abrams can acquire and kill.

But the star of the show was certainly the venerable M240, and these were singing for every turn non-stop. The enemy lacks motivation and with enough persuasion are keen to seek new positions to the rear. Each M1 got over 50 kills, and the artillery was lethal. I successfully bypassed the minefield and the infantry got involved toward the end, storming the complex and bringing it to a close.

I've played WW2 Combat Mission for a long time, and I'm glad I decided to try a modern one. It's fun and different and I am having a great time. Thanks for all of the help.

[Campaigns]

I thought the first battle was excellent George, thanks for making that campaign. Great map, cool objectives, a manageable force and I like the briefing style. I actually did just fine in the first mission, forty minutes in I was at the first phase line. It's just that perhaps the enemy was too resolute for my first taste of the modern CM battlefield.

Vergeltungswaffe, I meant had UAVs been added to Task Force Thunder, and can confirm they have, as I finished the first battle of the campaign last night. Good stuff, and a brutal introduction to combat on the modern battlefield. A few folks suggested I take my time and ease in to it, which is really good advice, and in the end perhaps I took more casualties than I am really comfortable with

 

[Spreading the Fausts Around]

Gotta love this game. That was one angry tank driver. Good stuff .

[Campaigns]

Thanks Pandur, that sounds good and I think I'll kick it off tonight. I've fooled around in SF2 enough now that I think I can make a proper go of it.

Still curious if UAVs have been added in to it? I'll know soon enough I reckon.

[Campaigns]

1 minute ago, 37mm said:

The Forging Steel campaign is not set in Syria... it is a hypothetical "Blue vs Red" high intensity, Mechanized war campaign (perfect for a Euroscape conversion).

 

 

Ah thanks, my mistake.  Those enemy troops are rugged

Thanks also for the recommendations, just the sort of thing I was looking for. Are you the same 37mm who's posted at SimHQ?

I think I'll dive in to Task Force Thunder and it should keep me occupied for a while. Appreciate all the help so far.

[Campaigns]

Thanks Danfrodo, good to know. Maybe I'll kick it off this evening. I want to see more of Forging Steel but I might shelve it for a while.  And besides, one of the things that attracted me to SF2 was the fact it's so different from what I've played before and things like drones are one of the toys I want to play with, and SF1 did not have these correct? Were they added to Task Force Thunder when it got the makeover for SF2? What other types of changes were made to bring it up to SF2 level? New AI plans, briefings and the like?

 

I played a few QBs to see what's what (with Javelin) and campaigns are where it is for me.

[Campaigns]

Thanks man, that sounds quite manageable. I am just coming off completing the Blunting the Spear campaign in Red Thunder and and after that I was looking for something a bit lighter

Which brings up something that I was thinking last night... in-game we get very little info on the campaigns we have installed from the selection screen. It might say small, or huge or large. What does this mean? Is it campaign length, force size, map size, all of it, some or none? Why so little info here aside from the author's brief description? It would be nice to know more. Task Force Thunder is listed as large I think, but more of an indication that it's long?

And also, is there a way to back out in CMx2 after reading the general briefing? In CMx1 you could choose cancel. Maybe I don't see how, but to check out a campaign I need to actually load the first scenario in CMx2, and that's after reading the general briefing!

[Campaigns]

Thanks for the recommendation, any particular reason why you suggest that one? It looks like a big one, and a long one. I might wait before tackling it.

So I'm new to Shock Force, never played the first iteration. I assumed too much in regards to campaign availability for this one I think, or I don't know where to look. The Scenario Depot has none. And just seven come with the game, one being the training campaign. So I had a look at what's listed at the SD III for SF1 and there are some there. I had no idea if these would work in SF2 but I reasoned they would. Had a look about and selected George MCs Forging Steel campaign, loaded it up and all seems fine with it. Matter of fact it seemed just my cuppa, platoon-sized (at least the opening probe), backed by a platoon of M1s, which is a perfect sort of setup for me to get in the groove really.

And I liked it. Played about the first 40 minutes and made good progress, but kept thinking man these enemy troops seem fanatical. Dislodging them from the extensive trenches/ditches on the map seemed exceedingly difficult. They didn't break, didn't run.  I wanted to see what was going on so I opened it up and saw that every enemy soldier and vehicle is Crack. Yep that explains it. Is the rest of the campaign the same?  Is the Syrian army so finely honed?

Any other recommendations? It doesn't matter much to me at this point if it's gotten the SF2 treatment now that I see those work fine. Is there anywhere to find campaigns aside from the Scenario Depot? My IT guy seems to have blocked IanLs site, so can't check from work. Does he have any that aren't at SD III?

[Spreading the Fausts Around]

You're having a proper go of it Bozowans, nicely done. If you finish this campaign would you please let me know how many T-34s were in the final battle? I think it would be interesting to compare. I won't say how many I had just yet to keep the veil in place, though I've spoiled the hell out of this campaign so far. But it would be interesting to see if there's any significant difference from one run to the next depending on how it plays out for each player. I'd also be interested to see the final campaign totals as well, but no obligation of course.

Good luck on this one mate, the designers had a few tricks up their sleeves. They obviously spent a lot of time carefully placing the defenses in this campaign.

 

[Spreading the Fausts Around]

18 hours ago, Bozowans said:

Now on to mission 5! This one looks a lot more difficult already. There's a bit less time to work with and it's dark outside now, which means more close range fights, which is bad for me.

This was one of the more difficult missions for me, and the one where I displayed the least ambition for taking objectives. I took the town that starts with 'W' and Stary Jankow? was contested at the end, but otherwise I kept it tight and concentrated and wasn't suckered in to those flank objectives and it ended as a minor victory. The visibility works like night, where things are inside the blue sightlines, but not visible to your units unless they move or fire. There were a number of 'why can't he see that tank' moments. Combined with the tricky contours of the map (I felt like it was sort of crowned) it's a challenging scenario, or it was for me. It was a fun one though.

A couple of posts back I said the fifth battle was Dybow Kolonia, but it's Stary Jankow isn't it? These place names don't stick in the brain.

Thanks Warts, that's good to know.

[Spreading the Fausts Around]

Yes, the AI has a core force, though obviously they receive replacements. The better you do in one battle the less you should face after. For me the fourth battle had at least a platoon of assault guns and five T-34s and I had a tougher go of it. Killing tanks is key to setting up the final battle as I understand it and that's how I approached it. Still, they had quite a few at the end.

The fact that in several scenarios the AI is to exit can add some urgency to your operation, although I didn't let that enter my plans. If they made it off good for them, meet later. Upping the tempo to prevent their escape would just lead to needless casualties is the way I approached it.

[Mods question]

I was hoping someone would post where to find one Majick, but I think the answer is it does not exist (I could use one too)

All I've done is Juju's UI and the rest of my CMRT install is bone stock, but ya know, that's just fine.

I could go for new vehicle skins, especially the tanks, or better buildings textures or even terrain/foliage, but honestly I'm happy as is and anyway I don't want to find everything individually (if it exists).