Maj Kong

Mr Dorosh, I think you're probably right that the trials weren't the fairest but what annoys me about that website is he makes special pains to identify which lawyers were Jews etc. After exploring the entire website more fully, he has a very insidious way of being really interested in the Holocaust, but for all the wrong reasons - inserted in every discussion are disparaging comments about Jews and defensive comments about the Germans. e.g. He visits the Anne Frank house and is pretty exhaustive in his description of the tour - but makes weird comments in the middle like - Anne Frank might not have died if their father had reported to the authorities because they would then have been sent to a "Star" camp instead of Bergen Belsen. WTF?

Mr Kettler, GTG I just thought this focus on the Indian membership in the division to be a little odd and I kept noticing the point made in the other websites about "maybe it was because they were minorities and they were getting back at white men". So yes, it appears there were many Native Americans in the division, but I don't think hatred of white men had anything to do with how they performed in combat. I would also note - it appears many of the US Army photographs single out American Indians probably for propaganda purposes. I particularly noticed one which had named three soldiers from different tribes which may lead people to think they were a majority, however if you look at the formation standing behind them they're all Anglo. I see that done by Marine PAO all the time...minority people pulled out for photo ops because they make for good human interest stories and kind of reflect this broad "see Americans aren't just white theme." Semper Fi

dang it again...

fyi, two of those are reenactor websites...and I would note that we all know by now the dangers of using Wikipedia for anything authoritative as anyone can type up anything they want and have a good chance of it remaining there. I would note that it appears a standard division history is cited and then has a sentence inserted describing the shootings in Sicily and Dachau. Then links are provided to the infamous "scrapbook" page and it's cross referenced with Dachau. hmmmm I'm not sure how you verify the validity of anything you read on the internet...can you? I think I might find it more believeable if it was linked to something in the National Archives, a .mil address, or Bundesarchiv or something like that...but really - can't anyone type - this is the sworn testimony of J. S. Ragman and he saw this? As for the origins of the 45th, they're well known and it's one of history's ironies that it's prewar symbol was a swastika. Although they're symbol is American Indian and they were a conglomeration of National Guard units from the SW - I don't think any conclusions can be made that the entire division of some 15,000 men was composed of Indians. IIRC, American Indians have a history of having the highest percentage of their race serving in the armed forces as a whole, but I think if the 45th had been truly a "Indian" division we'd hear about it all the time every Native American heritage month. If it was just about opportunities to kill white men, is that the explanation for the valiant exploits of the 442nd RCT? (which I don't believe anyone has accused of murdering prisoners)

trip p [ February 25, 2006, 06:55 PM: Message edited by: Maj Kong ]

double post

dang

I did go through the scrapbook website in its entirety as well as another similar one at humanitas.org. In my opinion they purport to be memorials to the holocaust but instead are neo-nazi apologist websites that exalt in the work of the KZ. Andreas ref to the AHF has an extensive rebuttal to their claims. Again, no doubt that some German soldiers were shot...I would say recognize that something illegal happened as often happened on both sides and be done with it. Why I believe the site's a sham: - Emphasis most prisoners at Dachau were not Jews but mainly Communists, serious criminals, political criminals. - Emphasis that gas chambers were never used. -Emphasis that dead in train cars were caused by Allied strafing and that most dead in camp were from typhus not from execution. - Emphasis that 45th Div was mainly composed of American Indians (I don't think that's true) singling out Lt Bushyhead as a full blooded Cherokee that accounts for the division's history of savagery from Sicily onward as the red man's delight in killing white men. - Section on Dachau Malmedy massacre trial that purports all German prisoners were tortured/coerced into admitting guilt. - The humanitas site is mainly a cut and paste of scrapbook as as example - someone asks the webmaster - I'm a great admirer of Hitler and am fascniated by his speeches, do you have any recordings? Reply: I abhor Hitler and everything he stood for, here's a link to his speeches. ; )

After googling more about the 45th Div and Dachau it's quite interesting because of the controversy between LtCol Sparks and BGen Linden of the 42nd Div. Andreas, concur your source seems very knowledgeable. Other AHF posts used Mr. Kettler's questionable sources. I recall seeing some of the British films about the camps on PBS...bulldozers clearing the stacks and stacks of bodies...definitely memorable.

Although the Dachau photos clearly show some Germans were shot...I have trouble having complete faith in all the web sources cited. None are truly primary sources (no scanned pdfs on government websites) and the Wikipedia entries and "Scrapbook" pages seem like veiled attempts at denial. Big emphasis on Dachau mainly contained Communists, etc. not Jews. Gas chambers not used...Peiper and others tortured to ensure Malmedy convictions. Back to original topic...I always thought John Keegan's "Face of Battle" was excellent talking about the differing incidents of kindness/cruelty and Holmes "Acts of War". I do have to admit I'm always a little leery though of people who aren't or have never been soldiers who continue to play and be fascinated by wargames far into adulthood while professing abhorrence about war. It's like someone being guilty about watching porn but they do it anyway.

I saw the funding request for USMC ADS. The picture shows the HMMWV with dish on top but the infantry weapons officer said they neglected to show the two huge immobile generators hooked up to power it.

any scoop on this? has anyone reposted anything related to Pacific Mods? Beuller?

Sorry Mike, What site are you going to be posting this stuff at...sounds awesome. Semper Fi.

does this also involve your pacific mod?