JerseyJohn
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Posts posted by JerseyJohn
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Agreed with the concept. One of the German weaknesses was Hitler's habit of creating new divisions and giving them upgraded weapons instead of sending them to veterans still in the field. Although I like it, I think it's too sophisticated for this approach; as the man says -- on second thought, why get aggravated!
There was a DOS game around ten years ago that used a similar idea; armies were dated and as they became older they're level of weapon obsolescence rose. Maybe something like that combined with a behind the lines refit option would have a similar effect to what you're proposing.
[ November 27, 2002, 01:27 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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I remember your suggesting it in an earlier Forum, possibly North America .
That particular issue I'm not too down on because there's a transportation charge, but you're right, it isn't the same as having transports that need to be moved from one area to another. It's the reason another Anzio operation wasn't attempted in Italy -- the transports were going to England in leu of the Normandy invasion.
[ November 26, 2002, 08:48 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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Ride of the Valkyries (from Die Walkure) played on a helicopter of the Air Cavalry in Appocolypse Now , ("Scares the hell out of them!") Robert DuVal is the battle crazed surfing nut colonel.
A very stirring and great piece of music. Zillions of recordings of it; there's a good budget CD from London, Weekend Classics called, appropriately enough, The Ride of the Valkyries -- Leopold Stokowski conducting the London Symphony Orchestra from the late 60s early 70s. Excellent though old recordings that still sound great.
[ November 27, 2002, 12:24 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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Great idea.
Agreed on his style. I used to wonder why his early works sounded so much like Mozart then I realized his tutor was Salieri, the guy who supposedly was so jealous of him!
The funny thing about the play Amadeaus is Mozart, Schubert and Beethoven all liked Salieri a lot -- Beethoven praised him as a friend.
I think Schubert finally found himself in the last three symphonies. I'd like to know what that lost one sounds like (if it isn't just a mistaken identity) and his string quartets and assorted other chamber music are also among my favorite 19th Century pieces.
Beethoven stymied a lot of German composers, especially Robert Schumann and Brahms. He was too much of a Giant and they were all wary of being compared to him.
Even as late as Schoenberg, with all his ultra-modernism, he said the most modern work of music was Beethoven's Grosse Fugue!
[ November 26, 2002, 08:11 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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I'm a fan of Gardner's though I lean toward the older conductors from the fifties through eighties. Solti and von Karejan are my mainstays with Bernstein, Barbarolli, Szell and several others a little farther back. In ancient mono I like Toscanni a lot and also Furtwangler, though their interpretations were almost totally different.
For period instruments I like the 4 CD Box set of Schubert's symphonies by the Hanover Band and Roy Goodman, though I didn't care much for his/their Beethoven cycle.
Thanks for telling me about Gardner, I'll be sure to listen to those recordings.
[ November 26, 2002, 07:44 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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Don't wait for an arguement!
Beethoven's Ninth seems to always be the number one choice. Agreed, it may very well be the most amazing piece ever written. A friend of mine seemed really amazed at the quiet complexity of the slow movement and I said, "He wrote it around a hundred and eighty years ago and he was deaf!" The guy nearly fell down.
Bruno Walter's 1963 recording of it with the Columbia Symphony was fine till the finale, where one of the male soloists isn't up to the task and everything wanes.
It's a shame because his recordings of the Third, Fourth and Sixth are among the best ever made and the Ninth would have rounded it out very well. At the time his Fifth was highly regarded but I prefer all three of von Karehan's recordings of the ninth with the Berlin Philharmonic. Walter's recordings of the Second, Seventh and Eighth are also very good.
The Eroica is one of my favorites and Walter's recording of it is the one I like best. If you're a Beethoven lover I really recommend Bruno Walter's late 50s early 60s recordings of the 3rd, 4th and 6th. with the Columbia Symphony; the Pastoral in particular.
Back in the mid-sixties I remember his Fifth being the most popular in America, with the Ninth gaining slowly but steadily.
[ November 26, 2002, 07:33 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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All the previous entries say quite a bit :cool: and I agree with everything.
The only reason I'm making this one is to say there's a very good scenario editor; if you absolutely must play the computer instead of humans, you might try creating weighted scenarios -- ones that are in the AIs favor and aren't familiar situations so you won't know how the computer will react.
This Scenario is now being developed and discussed in Carl's Scenario Forum (a very good idea!) .
For example, I've been working on one for a while that assumes WW I ended in a stand-off with the Treaty of Brest-Litovsk taking effect. The Austrian and Ottoman Empires are gone, broken up from both without and within. Poland is a German Territory, the Baltic States a German Ally and a big chunk of the Ukrain and Belo-Russia occupied by Germany (representing the short-lived German satellite of Ukrania).
All of that is very historically reliable. Up to the stalling of the Hindenberg-Ludendorff Offensive --
-- England and France were desperate for peace and were willing to acknowledge everything Germany had occupied in the east on condition that Germany pull out of Northern France and Belgium; they were even willing to restore the verly large African colonies German had lost. But, Kaiser Wilhem II (a.k.a. Willie the Fool) wanted it all -- and wound up with nothing.
The map is redrawn according to one I found in a 1938 book, Brest-Litovsk by John W. Wheeler-Bennett [how often to you find a hyphenated title by a hyphenated author!
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The situation is Sept '39, truncated Russia, France and Britain are allies against Germany; Stalin wants his territories back and France wants revenge! The Allies have the first move.
I envision it as a War where the early campaigns are infantry oriented, so there are only a few armor units. I also see it as something that would have lasted the full six years, with Germany being on the defensive for the first year or even two years, then it would have been more like WW II.
I'm still working out the details, but I when I finally get to play it I'll have no idea how the AI will react.
Unfortunately, scenario creating isn't as easy as it seems and it requires patience and research.
I chose this subject in part because I didn't have to worry about accurately recreating an historical situation; this scenario is full of speculation. For example, I speculate that even without the Versailles Treaty the Kaiser's government would have been couped, so it makes sense that the Nazis are in power; for my own contentedness I imagine them being mellower, and less racist without the "stab-in-the-back" hate mongering associated with their malevolence -- call me a dreamer!
In other forums various players have posted their own scenarios, notably Martinov, dgaad and Carl von Mannerheim, who went the other route and made a 1962 hot war scenario. My apologies to all those whose names I didn't mention. You can download their efforts and see how they went about it. Most of their work is document in the download file.
Carl von Mannerheim has set up a forum to help players devolop their scenario ideas!
[ November 28, 2002, 04:57 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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Thanks Dutch -- sounds like the route I'm looking for!
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Oddly enough, the Eroica was one of the pieces I was listening to [bruno Walter, Columbia Sym Orch]-- the lively third movement -- when I opened the game and the theme jumped in to make it a psychotic duet!Originally posted by Flash Gordon:I was thinking about replacing it with Beethoven's Eroica - something a little less likely to grate on my jangled nerves.
The problem is, if your listening to something like online radio you can't turn the sound off without disrupting what you're already listening to. I understand the game needs a theme -- I'd just like an option, or to know if it's there already, where it can be disabled.
[ November 26, 2002, 04:59 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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There's always a way to make things unrealistic. In many of the other forums some variation on this these is always running!
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Very good in my opinion. The general idea was gone over in at least one past forum but didn't get anywhere. What your suggesting sounds similar to the system used in Clash of Steel and it was one of the things I liked about that game.
[ November 26, 2002, 04:57 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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Axis diplomacy was pretty crude, along the lines of either offering chunks of other people's countries or saying "your either with us or against us." Usually, when an ally ceased contributing or wanted out the Germans blitzed them -- Italy 43, Hungary 45, etc..
German spies in England were a total flop. England's spies in Europe weren't much better, but they had people like Admiral Canaris feeding information to them, plus the Bletchely Park [and Polish-French] Ultra code breaking, and those things made a lot of difference.
Also, the Brits had some outstanding espionage triumphs -- like the Mediteranean and Normandy disinformation projects, but they also had almost a lot of efforts backfire.
Hicom had an event for intelligence revealing enemy plans, etc., depending upon how much was invested in that area. But I don't think there's any reliable way of putting things like that in this game.
If there is, I'm in favor of it.
[ November 26, 2002, 01:53 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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House rules are a stopgap solution. Plus, the suggestions are aiming for something more than what's in the game now and you focused on one single point -- probably the least important one of all!
As for it being a non-problem, that's nonsense --every forum page has at least one forum asking about this and different people repeatedly saying they don't understant why the Axis is able to do it. I'd say that's definitely a flaw that ought to be corrected. Regardless of what either of us think it will either be rectified or the game will lose it's credibility.
As for tampering with the game or fixing something that isn't broken or whatever the point was, it amounts to this:
Why invent a car when you have a horse and buggy?
Have you noticed little details like the fact Germany can't get it's fleet into the North Atlantic via Norway (the route it ALWAYS used) without first sinking the Royal Navy!
I like the game myself and have said so numerous times, but that doesn't mean it should be left as it is, flaws and all, with the corrections being compensated for by "House Rules."
What sort of house rule do you use at Scapa Flow, agree that the British player should vacate the port whenever the German player wants to send units out to sea?
[ November 26, 2002, 02:27 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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Then there's The Further Adventures of Buckaroo Bonzai which dares to expose the true intention of Mussolini's crazed researchers delving into the -- but as you know JayJay, to reveal more would be too dangerous. :eek:
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I like to listen to music while I'm on the computer. I occassionaly find mysely going in and out of the PBEM while online, same as Flash, and that game intro is hard to take against something you're already listening to. I'd like to shut it off completely!
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Something like that would be an improvement -- but how about the Scapa Flow problem and the Iceland/Greenland options. During the war both England and the United States were concerned about the Germans seizing those harbors -- the United States took over the garrisoning of Iceland from the British!
[ November 26, 2002, 12:56 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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As the North Atlantic in the game is not and can't be drawn to scale and the Western Hemisphere can't be realistically included in play, I think the areas representing Canada and the United States should be removed entirely.
-- The question then becomes how units from those countries enter the European Theater.
The only solution I can see is to partition part of the western Atlantic off the playing area, preferably the portion that contains Canada and the U. S., and use it as a holding area showing the Allied player what Canadian and U. S. units are available and how many MPPs are currently available in those countries to either build or transport or operate air units. None of this info would be visable to the Axis player, who would only see a U.S. and a Canadian Flag.
In the Northwest corner there would be a box representing units escorting convoys, wolf packs and capital ships assigned to raiding convoys. The Royal Navy could assign capital ship units to attempt to track down and destroy German Capital ships in "the Box," which would represent the far Atlantic regions not shown on the game map. Units not in the box or leaving it would emerge randomly between five and ten hexes away from it, German units to the south, British units to the east. German units would also have the option of returning to the Baltic via the Norwegian fiords.
Iceland and Greenland would start out as neutrals and would be able to accept British garrisons after a German invasion of Denmark.
-- In the actual campaigns German naval units skirted Scapa Flow by first moving north along the Norwegian coast then heading out to sea between Bergen and Narvik.
As Narvik is not shown on the map and Bergen is within easy striking range of Scapa, a method should be devised to allow German naval units to follow this path to the Western Atlantic via The Denmark Straights, also not within the map's hex area. A possible solution would be for the Axis to move the desired ships to a zone between Copenhagen and Oslo and designate them for the Denmark Straits route, putting them in the Convoy Box. Once in that holding area, the Axis player should have the choice of returning his ships either to the Baltic or into the hex portion of the Atlantic via the random method described earlier.
-- An allowence should be made for "milk cow" subs that keep wolf packs above the zero supply level. Possibly a setting that U-Boats in the Atlantic never fall below a 3 supply level. U-Boats should also have the option of returning from the Convoy Box via the Baltic route or the Atlantic hex area.
Combat in the Convoy off map area would effect ships by having them either sunk or damaged; a damaged German ship, for example might choose going back to the Baltic, a much safer choice, over exiting into the Atlantic and attempting to reach France or some other base.
Ireland, Portugal and Spain should have Atlantic seaports.
If Germany possesses Norway it should have an off-map method of attempting invasions of Iceland and Greenland (in reality only a small portion of each would be the object, not the entire country as shown on a map as most of both counties are barren arctic wastes -- no offense to anyone who happens to live in either arctic paradise).
If captured, the Axis should be able to assign ships and air units there along with an infantry garrison. It would serve as a sub base and greatly increase the chance of success for German U-Boats.
Conversely, if the Allies hold Iceland they should be the ones able to post air and sea units that would decrease the chances of wolf-pack successes.
Possession of each country would have a limited effect increased by the possession and garrisoning (land and naval) of the other.
For the Axis, going from east to west, each country --Norway, Iceland and Greenland-- would be interlocked; if Germany loses Iceland her garrison and air units in Greenland are lost (no supplies) but her naval units make a dash for freedom. If Norway is lost, the land and air units in both Iceland and Greenland are lost due to their supply line being cut.
If Norway is Allied Germany loses it's fiord (Baltic to Western Atlantic convoy box) travel route.
I think these are changes that can be incorporated without significantly altering the strategy of the game, except to make it better and more realistic. And they would have the advantage of not distorting the map's main playing area.
[ November 25, 2002, 10:56 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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Playing against a human combined with the fog of war element is much better than playing against the AI or playing another person in a boardgame format. The AI is especially undesirable after you've had a few games against it and play becomes stylized.
An added bonus of going against a human is the wealth of free advice with each E-Mail
.[ November 25, 2002, 09:56 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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And hang a right at Montreal!
[ November 25, 2002, 10:35 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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At this point there's been plenty of spirited discussion, some might even say arguing, about the gaminess of the Axis invading North America. Well, as it really couldn't have happened during the historical situation, and maybe not under any other circumstances, such an invasion definitely should not be possible.
There are several very good forums concerning how the game might be improved, but I think the area that is most in need of correction is The North Atlantic.
I'm sure there is an abundance of viewpoints on this. I'll post my own views and suggestions after a the forum has been up a while so it will have a more open nature rather than continuing off the opening thread.
[ November 25, 2002, 07:36 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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House rules are fine but there are a few quirks like this one in the game and hopefully they'll simply be corrected.
I have nothing against doing something different from the historical model as long as there's justification for it -- and, even though I carry out these invasions in the game [i really dislike playing according to house rules] I've written several very long tracks on the impossibility of Germany carrying out such invasions historically, as have others, and think the option itself should simply be removed. Period.
The only Atlantic operations Germany could have conducted, if Hitler had expanded his fleet a bit, were limited landings such as taking Reykeyvaak Iceland and possibly Tully Greenland. The reason would not have been to conquer either the US or Canada but to provide air and naval bases to destroy the convoys.
A look at the map makes this obvious.
[there should be a map of the North Atlantic here]
Helps put things back in perspective!
Instead of Canada and the US, what I'd like to see is Iceland and the Canary Isands (Spanish possession off the Northwest African coast, not visable on the above map) with the Western Hemisphere entirely ommitted, as it should be in the game scale.
Showing the Canaries and Iceland on the game map can't be done within the map's present dimensions, but I'd preffer that abstraction to the one we have now.
Unfortunately, with the map as it is now, it would be virtually impossible for a German expedition to get past Scapa Flow, makeing some sort of off-map rule necessary -- along the lines of allowing Germany to attempt an Iceland invasion if it possesses Norway.
But there we go again with the sort of off map rule Hubert was apparently trying to avoid.
Also, if the Western Hemisphere were removed I don't know how the U. S. and Canada would enter units.
The way it was done in COS, where there had to be a link to England, is only adequate but not really desireable.
If the U.K. is out of the game the AI and the Allied human player should have the option of conductine landings similar to Operation Torch along the Euro-African coastline. Unfortunately, this would create a whole new set of problems, such as does the U. S. continue fighting in Europe even if Germany's conquered everyone else?
Possibly if the U. S. is on the verge of winning, maybe having retaken France or Italy with units inside Germany's original borders. Otherwise, I think an armistace would have been agreed upon with the Axis, in effect, being left the victor. A revised set of victory conditions would need to be considered.
[ November 25, 2002, 02:40 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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I think it might be an abstraction to represent net totals available. A lot of American production was tied up in building things like Liberty Ships and convoy escorts to maintain the supply lines.
A lot of it was also tied up in manugacturing basic war materials like ammunition and other basics which the U. S. then had to ship all around the world. What remains is the actual amount that can be converted into fighting units -- also, the U. S. starts off with units that didn't really exist when America entered the war.
Then there was the Pacific War involving a whole new set of armies, air wings and much larger naval and transport/convoy resources.
None of which is offered as the answer, just my opinion.
[ November 25, 2002, 08:11 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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If your navy is strong enough pound the shore hexes with battleships and place carriers behind them -- it may take a few turns to accomplish but neither the Canadians nor Americans should be able to replace their losses quickly enough.
I have a strong feeling it won't be possible to launch these invasions too much longer. Going back through past forums you'll see tons of entries focusing on how unrealistic all of this is.
The earliest one that I know of is eight or nine pages back by now, "North America" which had a bunch of players howling at me when I posted it because apparently none of them had tried invading Canada. Then it turned into a more serious discussion and the idea has been popping up regularly ever since.
Before anyone gets ticked at me for saying I had the first posting on it -- that's not what I'm claiming, what I'm saying is it's the first one I know of. By the number of people who were livid about the idea of Germany crossing the ocean I got the idea it wasn't a popular notion. Since then it's been discussed almost routinely -- at first Canada and more often lately with regard to the U. S..
The details of it's impossiblity was gone over in tedius detail in earlier forums that I won't repeat here --
"Amen and Halleleulyah!"
-- I don't think it should be possible within the present game structure. For one thing, the Atlantic as shown is far too narrow, for another the abstraction of North America does not represent the actual difficulties -- especially supply and replacement problems -- that would have been involved in transatlantic lifelines.
Hubert commented on it at some point and it was obvious that the two Western Hemisphere land masses weren't intended to be targets of German invasions, but in the game mechanics it's unavoidable when Germany becomes strong enough.
:eek:
In the "Just say no" spirit, a few guys have made entries like, "Just don't do it!" Sorry, if I can I do, which I suppose is the way most of us are.
[ November 25, 2002, 07:39 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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That's my impression. I only remember one reference to a German Cavalry Division in the Second World War and also that it was used for ceremonial occasions. Eventually the soldiers in it must have fought somewhere, but I don't know the details -- probably they were used as infantry.
Also, there were German auxilliaries who were organized as mounted infantry in both Yugoslavia and the Ukraine to fight partisans. Again, I haven't found much on them and this is largely based on photos and captions.
[ November 25, 2002, 06:49 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]
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Music Mod?
in Strategic Command 1
Posted
That'll wake a guy up alright!
I'd like to find that exact recording, with the soprano shrieking out those high notes, but the recordings I've bought are orchestral versions of the arias along with the preludes and overtures. Not being a real opera buff I haven't got the vocal version, I'm sure it's readily available on a "highlights" CD of Die Walkure exactly as it was performed in the movie, along with another hour or so of hefty ladies warbling at the top of their lungs in German.
Actually, a lot of Wagner selections are very similar to that one. Rhine maidens being ravaged by mountain gods, avenging angels flying throught the clouds on sturdy mounts, people traipsing through fires and becoming immortal, that sort of thing. I happen to like it; my wife can't take more than a minute and a half of that stuff.
[ November 27, 2002, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]