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Hortlund

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Posts posted by Hortlund

    There is no Peng Challenge thread, it is all in their sick minds I tell you

    in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

    Posted

    Originally posted by Leeo:

    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leutnant Hortlund:

    Get real.

    Real is making the best with what you have.

    Real is fighting and dying like a combatant.

    Real is playing through to the bitter end.

    Real is the lump of gristle between your ears that you pawn off as a brain.

    I imagine a wet, brown paper bag is also a significant obstacle to you? </font>

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    There is no Peng Challenge thread, it is all in their sick minds I tell you

    in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

    Posted

    Originally posted by Leeo:

    </font><blockquote>quote:</font><hr />Originally posted by Leutnant Hortlund:

    Get real.

    Real is making the best with what you have.

    Real is fighting and dying like a combatant.

    Real is playing through to the bitter end.

    Real is the lump of gristle between your ears that you pawn off as a brain.

    I imagine a wet, brown paper bag is also a significant obstacle to you? </font>

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    There is no Peng Challenge thread, it is all in their sick minds I tell you

    in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

    Posted

    Originally posted by Leeo:

    You must not be set on glory, 'cause you sure don't have the guts.

    Oh...you mean the guts to stick it out in a 40+ turns CMBB PBEM game?

    Or the glory in taking your precious little pixeltruppen to another great victory that will echo through the annals of made up-history?

    Get real.

    [ April 21, 2003, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Leutnant Hortlund ]

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    There is no Peng Challenge thread, it is all in their sick minds I tell you

    in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

    Posted

    Originally posted by Leeo:

    You must not be set on glory, 'cause you sure don't have the guts.

    Oh...you mean the guts to stick it out in a 40+ turns CMBB PBEM game?

    Or the glory in taking your precious little pixeltruppen to another great victory that will echo through the annals of made up-history?

    Get real.

    [ April 21, 2003, 03:30 PM: Message edited by: Leutnant Hortlund ]

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    Russian Front: the Soviet Experience

    in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

    Posted

    Originally posted by Andreas:

    By all accounts Soviet atrocities were committed by troops temporarily out of control.

    It would be interesting to hear your source for this. Beevor, Ryan, Sennerteg, they all tell the same stories. Butchering of civilians, gang rapes, murder, torture. The scale of these crimes indicate that for your theory to be true, the entire soviet army who set foot on German soil between October 1944-May 1945 must have been temporarily out of control. These writers seem to argue that the Soviet soldiers could do pretty much what they pleased, and those Red Army officers that didnt take part in the atrocities, had no problem looking the other way.

    German atrocities were committed as part of an orchestrated campaign, by units specifically raised to commit the atrocities, under orders from higher authorities. There were almost certainly cases of ordinary soldiers committing similar atrocities, although discipline probably rarely broke down to such a degree. They also continued for the whole of the occupation, while the Soviet atrocities stopped very quickly.

    Well, there is a difference between the Einzatsgruppen and the general anti-partisan activities. While the Einzatsgruppen are in a league of their own when it comes to slaughtering civilians, regular WH and SS units did their fair share of atrocities too.

    The soviet atrocities stopped after the order from Stalin. I dont have the books in front of me right now, but I think it was...

    *sits and stare at the screen for a while, then gives up and walks into the other room to get the book*

    15th May 1945. After that, soldiers of the Red Army caught raping or torturing or butchering or whatever were shot. Diciplin was restored immideately.

    Incidentally, the fact that the soviet raping, butchering and plundering stopped immideately after the stop-order gives a pretty clear indication as to how flawed the "Soviet atrocities were committed by troops temporarily out of control"-theory is.

    They were given free hands when they entered German soil. ALL the evidence speaks in that direction. Vae victis.

    So no, the Soviets were not 'just as good at rape, murder, plunder, torture, butcher and whathaveyou'. One thing for example they did not do was to select a whole group of the population and then try to kill them all in an industrialised process. That does not mean they did not commit atrocities. It just means that there was both a qualitative and a quantitative difference between Soviet and German atrocities.

    Yes yes fine, if you want to argue over semantics we can do that. Its a bit distasteful though, in my humble opinion. Because it matters little to the victim wheter he/she is the victim of an industrialized process or the victim of an army on a killing spree.

    Moreover if you really really want to go down this lane, I'm going to claim that the soviet soldiers were BETTER than the Germans when it came to rape and plunder, while the Germans were BETTER at murdering and butchering...while the two armies were about even (or just as good if you want) at torturing eachother.

    But what is your point? The Germans killed more innocents, so therefore...what?

    "Quantitative and qualitative" what exactly do you mean with that? I understand quantitative, but what on earth do you mean by qualitative? What difference does it make how the criminals kill their victims?

    [ April 17, 2003, 07:51 PM: Message edited by: Leutnant Hortlund ]

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    There is no Peng Challenge thread, it is all in their sick minds I tell you

    in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin

    Posted

    Originally posted by lenakonrad:

    Still I can't understand why not? What the problem?

    Everyone like sometimes to get kinky.

    konrad

    Well, there are degrees of everything of cource. And while "lick my eyeballs" might not be the kinkiest thing in the world, it sure ranks among the weirdest. I mean what could she possibly get out of some guy putting his tounge in her eye? Leaving that aside, because obviously she did get something out of having a guy stick his tounge in her eye, what about me...?

    I dont want to know what an eye tastes like, I dont want to know what it feels like, I dont want to know. Call me conservative, but thats me.

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