atiff

Hi all, In response to a question on another forum, I did a small test of infantry close assault vs an AFV with only grenades. I found that the Follow Vehicle command sometimes gives strange effects. When your men catch up with the vehicle, they will start to throw grenades a lot on that turn, but in the turns following that they don't throw very many (maybe one per turn, sometimes none). This is with the vehicle sitting still, not moving (it was immobilised from an early hit). I found that by cancelling the Follow Vehicle command, clearing the targeting command and resetting the targeting command they went back to throwing lots of grenades again. A little strange, is it a bug or a documented feature?

I have another question too. It seems from an abortive game I had going that if you start a game without PBEM Helper then you can't get it to run Fast & Trust in PBEM Helper partway through the game, as it doesn't have any idea what turn you are actually on (and so doesn't do things in the right order). Maybe if you got the timing right (as in the previous post) it would work...?

Maybe it is not simply an issue of deck space and handholds, but engine power or a combination of factors. Could the engine cope if you add another 300+ kg to a T-60/70? What about the suspension? Same applies to other vehicles, I imagine.

Yes, things soon change. In the beginning it is easier, but as your player rank improves to Veteran and beyond the fights get much tougher. Especially when you start having to do attacks against +75% opposition with -10% yourself. So far I think my campaign has been a reasonably accurate depiction of the Axis attacking phase (although I did manage to have a rather easy winter '41/42). It will be interesting to see what happens when we have to start defending a lot more in '43 and beyond. With maybe +75% for AI we will be facing odds of 4-1 or more a lot, I think.

Looks good, Rob. Haven't had a chance to try them out yet, still trying to find some time to play that Blackshirt Legion battle I was telling you about. Working 14 hour (incl commute) days at the moment, so not much time for CM....

Well, in the case of "what's proper" I already play like that as I like the history and re-enactment. Just leave it up to the people themselves.

Yes, this is an interesting point. Often, tank units and infantry divisions did fight together. I'm no expert, but this was probably less true for the Germans than other nations. The US did it a lot, and the Soviets too. The Germans often had support from assault guns and the like in the later war, earlier on 41-42 maybe not quite so much (assault guns not as common, and tanks on the offensive not usually fighting with leg infantry). When the Germans were having to defend, tanks often got thrown into the line to beef up positions or make counterattacks, and you fought with whatever was at hadn, I guess. I don't think it is too bad, after all it's only a game. Mixing it up give a bit of fun.

Where is the chart at cmmods.com? I can't find it. The spreadsheets are useful, but not what I remember seeing. I have seen a graphic display (maybe this is the thing at cmmods) which has boxes colour-coded for availability of each unit, etc. As to TOE, and units per division, etc, I guess you are trying to say "you are not allowed to purchase 15 of these tanks and four of these guns as there are not that many in your division", yes? You might be able to get around it in the following fashion. Think of the unit rarity as the likelihood of having such a unit in your division (where each unit consists of usually 4 of that weapon/vehicle). If you have one of that unit, the chances of having more of the same are reduced (rarity increased), and are probably related to (making the maths easy) rarity multiplied by one step for each two (30%, doubled rarity = 60%, tripled rarity = 90%, etc). This is sort of the way I think of the rarity values given by the game. Of course, the chances of you getting all of that unit are not good at company level, but you could probably imagine getting things in twos (single weapons not likely except in the case of arty spotters, remember ROQC takes no account of pre-battle casualties like BCR does) So you could then work off the tables you already have. Say you roll up your Rarity Limit as 30%. You want to buy some tanks with rarity 20%, ie, not too common in your division. You could purchase two (each effectively 20% rarity each), but not any more (the third and fourth would be effective rarity 2 x 20% = 40%, above your limit). After buying the two tanks you are allowed, you decide to buy some HMG's. For you division, they are rarity 10%. With a 30% limit, you could then buy 6 of them (first two are effective 10%, sedond two are effective 20%, third two are effective 30%) after that they break your limit. Note during purchase, they don't actually cost you more points, it is just a way of putting a limit on things that are not common. Of course this adds some thought and a little off-the-cuff calculation when you make your purchases, but not too hard I think, and I think it gives a practical limit without a lot of research. Comments?

I remember seeing information like this somewhere, maybe it was the Strategy Guide? Unfortunately, my copy didn't make the trip to Taiwan with me. Can anyone else confirm or deny this?

double post [ August 23, 2003, 03:22 AM: Message edited by: atiff ]

I can't claim credit for the name, saw it on a book somewhere. I can't think of anything except than the big Soviet offensives - Bagration especially might be interesting, maybe the Kharkhov area as it swapped hands like four times. Maybe for short time-scale campaigns (over a couple of months) you could use the basically same rules except swap "month" for "week" in the dice roll for next battle. This would require a modified spreadsheet showing weeks, and modified Operational Orders table broken down into weeks. Quite doable, though, I think. Also, I know a bit more about the Med theatre than I do the Eastern Front, so if you need a hand for a CMAK version of the campaign in the future, just holler.

Here's a couple of ideas: Red Star, White Star: command a lend-lease tank platoon (start with Stuarts in Jan 43 or Shermans in Jun 43?) from mid-war to the end (also adaptable to British lend-lease vehicles under a different campaign name) Through the Ranks (either nationality): Start with a single infantry platoon, and try to rise through the ranks to command a battalion by war's end. Would require some special rules (such as: At the end of each battle all favour awards are doubled (so as to be able to buy more troops more easily), never have more supporting points than your core force (so first battles are small), etc) Hammers and Eggshells (either nationality): command a platoon of tank destroyers (or any non-turreted AFV) from 1942 to war's end. Special rules: for all battles, set the AI's force type to Combined Arms (so that AI should always have some tanks) What do you think?

Wow, that is a lot! If my calculation is right, ifyou had a single line download running at 56K continuously, that would take 13 years!

This is how I came to find out about CM. I have been tabletop wargaming for many years, and often visited that site to purchase 15mm models for my forces. One day, on a computer without my bookmarks, I typed .com rather than .co.nz, and the rest is history.....

I was thinking about the other regions (eg, Central, North, etc) and wondering if you have thought of including a (perhaps optional) die roll for switching regions for the next battle. This would have the effect of (a) giving you slightly different units to play with (not many Romanians outside the southern region?) and ( different weather and map types (not as much snow or forest in the Ukraine). Eg, In August you were fighting in the Ukraine, but then in September you get moved north for the new offensive, etc. Perhaps a simple dice roll 1d6: 1 move one region south, 6 move one region north, 2-5 nothing. Comments?

Echoing jt's comments, good job Rob!

Sorry to hear of the situation, despite circumstances it is never a nice thing. Take care, Rob, and all the best to you and yours.

Hi Rob, Taken a look over the 0.92 Rules here at work. Looks like a good set of modifications, personally I am happy with everything you have changed - a big thumbs up! (Especially the change in experience levels for becoming Veteran and Crack - suddenly my tankers find out tyhey are Veterans ) Will do more battles ASAP and get the results to you.

Hey jt, As you may have seen from AAR's above, I'm battling as Germans from June 41. Actually at March 42 now, managed to skip over winter with only 2 battles so it didn't hurt much at all (in fact, they were two of my best wins, even against Veteran Guards units). I've been having a few discussions with Rob about the favour issue, using my half-dozen or so battles as samples, and there will be a 0.92 version out soon with significant changes to favour calculation (more of it, in some cases). I really like the direction things are heading, hoping to keep helping with more input.

Just wondering is anyone else playing/playtesting this, except for me?

The Mapping Mission idea works for importing a map into your campaign scenario save. Will make a couple of maps and show you how to use it. Battle #4 completed today, in rather short time. Advance mission, over open but rolling terrain, with our friends the Romanians again (recon company and platoon of R-2 tanks plus other bits in support). Only one hiding place for me to deploy, so I used it. First turn we spot a T-34 and T-26 on the opposite side, so we decide to shell them with out 100mm spotter as they are right on the objective anyway. Slowly sneak forward with some infantry, and play "shoot and scoot" with the T-26 while staying out of sight of the T-34. Got the T-26 but an ATG took out an R-2, then it started raining artillery. The infantry was taking a pounding, so at that stage I decided we weren't going to get any further forward here and pulled the pin (ie, withdrew). Suffered a 9-91 loss, but the CO wasn't too unphappy (only -11 favour overall) as later reports (scanning the map after the battle) showed we were outnumbered and outgunned here. Better to walk away and fight another day... (which happens to be in the same month again) More later.

Mapping Mission is free, designed for use with the CM Meta-Campaign. I think it will work OK for importing maps to a pre-existing scenario file, but need to check that out. I understand what you are aiming at, but I don't think the steppe is that flat. Looking at those semi-famous Ukranian 1/100,000 maps there are not large areas with no contour lines. The flatest regions still have maybe 20 metres of contour change over a couple of kilometres. I think Gentle Slopes models the steppe OK. There are undulations from old river beds, erosion, etc. Perhaps if you just got rid of Flat from the hilliness table, things would be OK. Combine Flat and Gentle Slopes into just one category of Gentle Slopes.

Hmm... think I might have struck a small problem with the rules. The terrain rolls for the map give (from Aug '41 to '44) about 50% chance of Open tree coverage and about 50% chance of Flat hilliness. (This is what I got in my battle #3 - Open and Flat). Problem with this that you will therefore fight 75% of your battles on Open, or Flat, or both Open and Flat terrain. In CMBB quickbattles, flat usually means a billiard-table map, and open means you have only grass to hide behind. On maps of this size (not large, in most cases), that is pretty much suicide for the attacker. On the first turn of any battle on open, flat terrain the bullets start flying before you have a chance to move, and you don't get much chance to respond before taking significant casualties. There is no tactical advance towards the enemy before the shooting starts. This, IMHO, does not make for a fun game. So what is the fix? Well, I see two ways. Avoid maps which allow Open and Flat together, as a minimum, and maybe even avoid Open or Flat options altogether. Few battlefields are actually that flat or devoid of cover. And for the purposes of the *game* there is no fun in playing on one. The other option is to do as in BCR and make up some map packs to fight on. This is not a difficult task, especially as in the rules link battle size to map size. It would not be difficult to create some maps of standard sizes, etc, and use them to fight on. The biggest problem with this approach is that you have to re-enter your troop stats every battle, because you can't "load a map" into a pre-existing scenario file using CMBB. Well, actually, that is not quite true. By using the Mapping Mission software, you can take an existing scenario file with a blank map and enter a map into it. I have not used Mapping Mission very much, apart from testing it out, so I will have to go back and look again. But I think it may be able to be used effectively. This does add a little more complexity to the process of setting up a battle as you have to export you map from Mapping Mission to CMBB, but I think it may be worth it. I will be investigating this further. Comments?

Battle #3 The CO gave us a new mission today, after our month out of the line. Our Romanian allies were attacking a bombed-out village, and we were sent along to help. The Romanian assault force consisted of an infantry company and two platoons of R-2 tanks, so we had a lot of armour to smash the Soviets with. Unfortunately, there was no over near the village - flat as a pancake, too. So it was just deploy, roll on up and start shooting at whatever appeared. Immediately (ie, on turn 1) eight Soviet tanks and an MG bunker were spotted. A short, shapr firefight followed in which all the enemy tanks were knocked out for the loss of two R-2's KO'd and another two damaged. No sooner had that threat been eliminated than a 76mm ATG opened up and blew out my (core force HQ) tank out from under me. As the rest of the platoon sought cover behind smoke, another was hit and also knocked out. Everyone fired madly at the gun, and eventually the crew abandoned it and were cut down trying to run away. The bunker also succumbed to large volumes of fire, and then our remaining forces advanded and mopped up the few troops left standing (a couple of platoons of Green Soviet infantry). All in all, a victory in terms of territory and kills (overall favour gain of 37), but at some cost. Two Panzers and two men from each of their crews is a bitter loss to swallow (experience of the vehicles suffers due to men needing to be replaced). If many more of our victories are phyrric ones like this, I fear the war will not go well for us. Also, when I asked the CO about getting better tanks with more armour and a bigger gun, he laughed and said we hadn't earned them yet (a handful of favour points short of Pz IIIH's, damn it!), so we will have to soldier on in our "eggshells with popguns" into September.

I've had a rifle squad blow up truck from 300+ metres in a current game (yes, I'm sure it was the rifles). OK, so it isn't armoured, but they must have been mortar shells or something, it was a big bang.