sightreader
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Posts
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Posts posted by sightreader
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Thank you, thank you, thank you guys for your recommendation of Ken Tout's amazing book. Talk about an eye-opener. How lucky we are that such an eloquent guy was there in the gunner's spot for such a thing!
Anyway, has anyone mocked up the battle he fought as a scenario? He has pretty detailed information in his book...
Thanks!
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I seem to remember reading "Brazen Chariots" when I was little; something about Africa, right? I didn't recall getting a lot of strategy out of it, but maybe that was because I was just too young...?
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Aha... thanks for the clarification, Moriarty. This begs the question: does turning the board diagonally fix the problem of edge hugging in these scenarios or does it only swap one kind of edge hugging for another?
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Thanks Moriarty! I've been trying diagonal maps using the auto-generator, since most of my battles are very small. Do you think some of the maps on those web sites would benefit from the diagonal treatment?
Ya kinda lost me on that edge hugging comment: I assume it's an inside joke over this newbie's head. Hopefully, if the diamond map works right, edge hugging is suicide unless you've gotten past the halfway point.
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Hey, I noticed that "Tank" by Ken Tout is out of print, but some of his other books are still in print. Are they as good as "Tank"?
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Wow! Thanks for the recommendations; sounds like Tout's TANK is the best place to start. I wonder if anyone made any decent movies about the tank experience. I saw some brief moments in "Kelly's Heroes" and there was that 80's propaganda film "The Beast", but beyond that I haven't seen anywhere near the coverage that there is for infantry and aerial combat.
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Most of the books I find on this topic are at a grander scale (i.e. books on Patton, Guederian, etc). Are there any books or accounts of individual tank crews and maneuver?
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Some folks fooling with this say that the edge hugging problem still exists, but is a bit harder to set up with the diagonal boards. If the tactical importance of board geometry is less than the tactical importance of terrain, then I'd say the experiment was a success.
It looks like the consensus is to start about 1/3 the way up the diamond so you don't get pinned starting in the corner.
I am concerned about reports that the diagonal board brings out irregularities in the implementation of elevation and roads when approached from a funny angle. Does anyone have a good idea of what these problems are?
Thanks,
Sightreader
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Yes, I must say that people have been very forgiving of my newbie mistakes (i.e. posting to 3 forums because I didn't know which was the right one) and have been very constructive in commentary. I didn't think of that artillery barrage with a restricted start zone: that gives me nightmares (after all, I had pure tank fights in mind). I'm not quite sure what the post about putting victory locations away from the edges refers to - I had small battles (4 vs 4 tank fights) in mind, where the victory locations mattered far less than a board small enough for a quick game (45 min or less) but big enough for flanking manuevers.
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Yes indeed, there is some speculation about circular maps. I think it would be ideal, although, of course, impossible to implement in this game. I didn't know there were sighting bugs when playing diagonally; I've only played this way twice and didn't notice. Ideally, I think it's best if the map fans out just a bit in front of the defensive position. If this is not centered on the board, it could look a tad like the Superman logo or a circle that had too much to eat.
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Thank you guys for your generous compliments! I tried playing a few like this against the computer. Assuming a bunch of Shermans against a few Ubers, it's critical for the Shermans to get to the wide middle before the Ubers can gun them down. Once they start converging, the Shermans can edge camp on their way in and the Ubers are pivoting all over the place just to get front shots. Hard to get the computer to play the Shermans right unless you start them close enough to the middle to get there quickly. I don't know if this tactical situation is more realistic or not, but it's certainly more interesting than the traditional square board.
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Yes indeed, that was my first reflex: a circular map. However, I couldn't figure out how to do that with this game system, so I figured a diamond would be the closest thing. Actually, it would be nice if you could adjust the widest part of the diamond to be the likely collision point of the forces (i.e. the more obtuse angle being the starting point of the slower force).
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Whew... thanks for letting me off the hook. I thought I'd get a Purple Heart for the beating that such a goof up should merit. Anyway, I hope the idea comes in handy: it sure has brought back our quick tank battles that had stagnated in edge camping.
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Yeah, I toyed with the idea of a huge map with small start zones. If there was a lot of terrain, though, it took forever to engage, and most of the scenarios I play are designed to be quick (we're busy guys, ya see). I thought this might work.
By the way, sorry about posting this to all the forums, I didn't know which forum it belongs to and didn't know it was a sin to post to all of them. My lunch.
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Sorry about that. I had a little difficulty determining which was the most appropriate forum for posting this. My bad.
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I love tank-only battles, but ever have trouble with Germans (or whoever has the better armor) camping along the edge to avoid getting flanked? Try turning the board diagonally and starting the forces in opposite corners! As long as the starting corners are not high, defendable ground, this should reduce the problem without increasing the board size.
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Why thank you, kind sir, for the Foobar's Cross. It sure beats getting a Purple Heart. I hope this idea comes in handy and rejuvenates the quality vs quantity Tank Fight!
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My apologies for not being clear. I'm suggesting turning the board 45 degrees, like a diamond. Start enemy forces on opposite corners of the diamond. This helps prevent stronger tanks from hugging the edge to avoid side shots.
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We had a problem in all tank fights with the Germans (or whoever had the superior armor) camping along the side of the board to prevent getting flanked. We suggest turning the square field diagonally and starting opposing tank forces in opposite corners. Unless the German start zone is good high ground, it makes the battle much more interesting.
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When creating a pure tank battle, we had trouble with Germans (or whoever has better armor) camping on the side of the board to prevent side shots. We suggest a remedy: turn a square field sideways and start forces in opposite corners. As long as the German starting corner is not good high ground, it seems to make the battle more interesting.
Scenarios for Tank! By Ken Tout?
in Combat Mission Archive #3 (2001)
Posted
Thanks! I'll take a look at those!