wbs
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Posts posted by wbs
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Thanks, Croda.
That IS interesting. Granddad told me a little bit in the 44th's participation of the Mannheim operation. IIRC they were one of the divisions that was involved in an envelopment manuever there, in order to surround the city.
I am familiar with the 44 ID website, but I have never read all of the links. Thanks again for pointing me in that direction.
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By Jungnitsch:
Thanks, Paul, that was a great article. Incidentally, you probably have dragged this thread closer to where it should be than where it was several posts ago.I realize this is now way off the topic this thread is going too, but here is another WWII veteran interview, this one with fighter ace Johannes Steinhoff.link
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By Croda:
That's really interesting! In my conversations with my grandfather I never heard about that. I would be interested in learning more about that action if I can. Can you direct me to any material on that subject?Interestingly enough, I believe that after Heidelburg the 10th AD drove deeper into Germany and took the town of Crailsheim but was cutoff by a German counterattack. If I'm not mistaken, it was the 44th ID that cleared the road to allow the 10th out of that jam. -
from wwb:
That's true, but in the context of the game I'm certain that I read in the manual (which is currently at a friend's house)that 'Fallschirmajager' units could not be conscript or greenJust because a unit says paratrooper does not mean they were elite. -
Croda,
My grandfather was the Asst. Division Commander (later Commanding General) of the 44th Infantry Division. Granddad was, like your wife's grandfather, also an artillery officer and at the time Heidelburg was captured was the Commanding General of the 44th's divisional artillery. It was the 44th's divisional artillery that captured Heidelburg.
Do you think that your wife's grandfather would have been of sufficient rank to have interacted with my grandfather at some point in his career? If so, what was his name?
What a funny coincidence!
[ February 25, 2002, 11:20 PM: Message edited by: wbs ]
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Croda,
What a coincidence!! I have in my possession a Nazi wall banner (Red, with white circle containing the swastika) that MY grandfather captured in Heidelburg on 3/30/45.
My grandfather was the commanding general who captured Heidelburg, and I wonder if your wife's grandfather was in my grandfather's command.
Question: Can you find out what division he was in?
p.s. I don't recognize that flag--sorry!
[ February 25, 2002, 11:07 PM: Message edited by: wbs ]
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I played a QB against the AI last night and gave the computer a +3 experience bonus. I also set the experience level to 'random' under the theory that the AI would have randomly selected experience, but nothing lower than 'Veteran'. The computer ended up receiving CONSCRIPT fallschirmjagers (there's an oxymoron!)
I am pretty sure that I read in the rule book that fallschirmjagers and other specially trained troops had higher-than-normal standards than normal 'line' units and therefore you would never receive 'conscript' or 'green' units of that type.
Also, shouldn't the +3 experience bonus have kept that from happening anyway?
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IronChef4,
I agree with you that, when it comes to history, you can never ASSUME anything. Adversaries will often write history to put themselves in a better light. Each side will have its version, when the truth is frequently somewhere in the middle.
For example, the Russians for decades made the claim that the Germans had executed 4500 Polish officers early in the war (The Katyn(?) Massacre).
The Russians were on the winning side, and their word carried more weight in the court of public opinion over the years.
Subsequent research and events have, however, conclusively proven that they were massacred by the Russians (The Russian gov't admitted it, as I recall, and apologized to the Polish gov't). I would have to refer you to newspaper accounts of this from 5-10 years ago for the details.
The point that I was trying to make with Viceroy was that I (and presumably others reading his post), on the basis of his unsupported declarative statement, could not automatically assume that the people in the photo were summarily executed by the Germans. It is possible that they were-I don't deny it at all. It is also POSSIBLE that the people WERE looters and were shot by the Germans who were trying to establish law and order in a territory that they had just occupied.
I was just curious as to the basis for his statement so that I could better evaluate it, that's all. It appears that he interpreted that to mean that I was automatically defending the Germans. I wasn't, but I don't automatically condemn them either. There were good guys and bad guys on both sides.
EDIT--p.s. thanks, Dorosh, for the new info. It helps clarify things even more
[ February 25, 2002, 10:30 PM: Message edited by: wbs ]
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Viceroy, Dorosh, thanks for the clarifications. Now I better understand your statements.
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Nope, not necessarily. I just was interested in knowing your basis for making such a declarative statement, that's all. I have seen enough to know that not everything is not always as it appears, since it is generally the winners who write the history books.
I didn't necessarily agree or disagree with you--just wanted to know your basis for the statement.
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You are right, Captain Whacky,"The Final Battle" is the name of Ryan's book. In an earlier post on this thread I mentioned that I had a couple of friends who were (young) housewives living in Berlin when it fell.
Their personal stories and anecdotes are consistent with what Ryan wrote about Soviet behavior after the fall of Berlin.
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By Viceroy:
Interesting statement, Viceroy....how do you know, since (I'm guessing) that you weren't there..... and no, those victims were not "looters"Now, I'm not saying that you are wrong, but on what do you base your statement?
Dorosh, just because you may not like the author doesn't necessarily mean that everything he says is false. Armies throughout recent history have tried to restore (or establish) civilian order in occupied territories. One way that some of them have done that is to shoot looters.
I do not know this author, nor do I know anything about the truth or absence of same in his book. Why do you believe (or not) what he says?
[ February 25, 2002, 09:29 PM: Message edited by: wbs ]
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From ConHugeCo:
Just to set the record straight...Captain Wacky,Not only have I bought the game, but I have kicked wbs's butt in many, many tcp/ip games!!! Before you or anyone else challenges me, however, I should point out that that is not very difficult.
He has won 17 out of 30 games played. He has been the Allies all 30 times. He has won only 56% of the games which, in CMBO terms, barely pushes him over the line from a 'draw' to a 'minor victory'. ALSO.. I'm not dead yet--we have a scheduled meeting on the field of battle this friday night. At that time I'll wipe that smug smirk off of his face
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From Conhugeco:
Yeah, Yeah, make me drink.........by the way, did you just register tonight? That member number is sky-high!WBS,I told you so.
Shadow, that was the last hurrah. Now I'll have to find something equally witty--maybe in a couple of decades
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Sure, No problem
(Sigh) It was nice while it lasted......
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Aw, Madmatt, you had to go and ruin our fun...
And it was such a good joke they were playing on him, too.
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Peter NZer? Peter NZer who?
Lindan, it sounds as though you have a split personality. You can live with it though, if you play both sides in "hotseat" games from now on.....
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My Father and I have a number of friends who fought for, or lived in, Germany in WWII. One was a U-Boat commander, one was an Me-109 pilot in Russia, one was the turret gunner in a tank that was involved in the invasion of Russia from June 1941 onward. One was in a Waffen-SS unit fighting in the West, one was in the Hitler Youth, and two were housewives in Berlin when it fell to the Russians.
I have heard the personal stories and anecdotes, and have been able to ask idle questions in casual conversation.
They all are US citizens now, leading quiet, productive lives. You could listen to their stories and, in many if not most cases, you could change their classification from "German" to "American" and the personal stories would be remarkably similar--at least for those who served in the military. The civilian stories are QUITE different.
For example, the tank gunner was just a guy in a tank that was moved to the eastern front. He was there because he was in the army and someone told him to go there. He was in the army because late in 1940 all of his friends were already in, and they said: "Horst, if you don't get in now the war will be over, and then you won't have the uniform and stories to get women to go out with you" ("Ja,Good advice", he snorts. "A year later I'm in a tank on the Russian front!)
The same general story can be told by many a US veteran who was 16 in 1944 and worried that the war would be over before he got a chance to get in it, and show off HIS uniform to HIS girlfriend (or someone he wanted to date).
The remarks made by the gentleman in Canada sound believable to me. They are a combination of his experiences and his interpretation of what he saw and heard. Given the context of time and place, if I were in his shoes I, too, would possibly conclude that the stockpiles that I saw were indicative of a pending invasion. I might come to that conclusion if for no other reason than I would evaluate what I saw from a German perspective--i.e. if Germans were going to launch an invasion that's what we would do (stockpile supplies of that type). I might not realize that they were there simply because the Russian transportation system was so bad they had not gotten around to moving those supplies into better storage facilities, since the German transportation system would never let that happen.
Absent any compelling reason to the contrary, the gentleman should be taken at his word. Even though he fought for Germany, that does not automatically make him evil. We are fortunate to have heard a first person account from his side of no-man's land, because there are so few of them left. In 20 years it will be forever impossible to have that type of conversation. You will only get your stories from history books, and you will not be able to ask them any questions.
[ February 25, 2002, 06:13 PM: Message edited by: wbs ]
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I am receiving the following error message when I try to get into 'active topics' on the BBS.
Since I don't know how to contact the board administration directly I am posting it here. Please adviseAn error has occured:Can't locate Data/Dumper.pm in @INC (@INC contains: ./Modules . /var/www/cgi-bin/bbs /var/www/cgi-bin/bbs/Modules /usr/lib/perl5/i386-linux/5.00404 /usr/lib/perl5 /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl/i386-linux /usr/lib/perl5/site_perl .) at /var/www/cgi-bin/bbs/ubb_search.cgi line 1014.
BEGIN failed--compilation aborted at /var/www/cgi-bin/bbs/ubb_search.cgi line 1014.
Please inform the board administration of this error so that they may fix the problem. Thank you!
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I guess that "Moon" would need to be the one to make that fix, too.
p.s. Thanks, moon, for answering my question shown above.
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Another oddity that I discovered with assault boats in this same scenario is that all of the assault boats have the notation "should exit for extra points" on the 'unit details' screen. Now, it's 900m from the water to the map edge where they are supposed to exit. Is it really possible to move the assault boats 900m through woods/trees/dry land, etc. to the map exit edge? Or was someone not paying attention to what units they were attaching that label to?
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In college I was fortunate enough to get into a history class that studied Patton vs. Rommel vs. Montgomery. The professor was a big wargamer (Avalon Hill) and would use gameboards and game pieces to illustrate various points. It was the most fun course I ever took. As I was also an avid wargamer (to my parent's dismay since it interfered with my grades, in their opinion) the professor and I soon became ardent rivals on the cardboard field of battle (any battle!). I got an "A" for the course (Hmm, I wonder why?) (-:
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Okay, Thanks Mattias.
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Nah, I like seeing the trucks fall off--especially when they're not mine. (-:
I wish someone would come up with a mod to create a big splash, though. Hmmmmm.......
QB giving out 'conscript' Fallschirmjagers!?
in Combat Mission Archive #4 (2002)
Posted
From Mikster Khan:
From 109 Gustav:
Thanks, Guys, these posts gave me what I was looking for. I was operating from memory, and remembered the paragraph that Mikster posted, but I thought it was written as an operating rule for the game rather than as historical commentary. Gustav's commentary provided the proper perspective for me.The only thing that still nags at the back of my mind is:
If it was not meant to apply to the game, why does the last sentence in Mikster's quote from the manual read "...CANNOT be conscripts"? That indicates present tense and would seem to indicate that it applies to CMBO. If it was meant as historical commentary it seems that it would have been written "...COULD NOT be conscripts" wouldn't it??
So, as written, that statement still seems to be meant to apply to CMBO. Am I missing something here? Or am I on to something?