Paco QNS
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Posts posted by Paco QNS
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Post a bird´s eye view of each map.
Surely their designers will identify them.
(( Edited to add: eck, make it a Quiz! ))
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See the thread:
and specially the article:
""Natural Killers —Turning the Tide of Battle""
by Major David S. Pierson, US Army
Not related, but by SLA Marshall I´ve found this document:
Commentary on Infantry and Weapons, Korea, 1950-51
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Edited to add:
Yeah!, I got the original source, look at
CAC Military Review in Past editions.
In the May-June 1999 number is the Pierson article
and in a letter published in Nov-Dec 1999 there is a rebuttal by Joseph Forbes
[ September 26, 2004, 12:55 AM: Message edited by: Paco QNS ]
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Please edit 3) , both polish and engineers would feel offended.
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Aprox. translations are:I believe the drawing on the left shows the area near the outer edges of the manlet and the drawing on the right shows the area towards the center near the gun.LEFT "Cut by cradles drillings"
and
RIGHT "Cut by view drilling for tower sight telescope"
Edited to add: Redwolf gets better and faster
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P 4
2 Ghz
256 Mb RAM
2:02
2:00
2:07
1:57
1:57
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Hey, Hans, check this page also -in case you didn´t see it-:
Les Tirailleurs Sénégalais du 24è RTS dans la tourmente de 1940
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There are two alternatives:
a) Give the mortar a "Turn to" order (along with the firing order), up to 180º from the target. The more degrees, the more delay.
Give the mortar a very short "Move to" order. This will delay it -along with the mounting time- for an amount of seconds.Both have the same problem: they only fire at the end of turn.
If I have understood you correctly, you use a Pause and a "Move" order, so the mortar fire a few shots and then stops fire and move.
Regards,
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(( Around the 26 footnote ))For example, in the smoke support portion of the deception plan for an assault crossing on the Dnieper in October 1943, smoke generation for the 65th Army was carefully planned and successfully executed simultaneously in thirteen sectors across thirty kilometers of the army front. The plan specified the purpose and location of the smoke screens, the expenditures of smoke resources, their readiness, and those responsible for executing the smoke operation. These smoke screens were used to blind German observation points, cover crossing sectors, and act as feigned points of attack. Previous Red Army combat experience in crossing water obstacles revealed the necessity for creating smoke screens at dummy crossing sites. But in order to successfully attract German attention, it was also necessary to increase troop activity and antiaircraft artillery fire at the dummy crossings. In the 65th Army's operation, a German rifle division attacked in the false smoke screen areas.Total smoke support for the 65th Army included using 5,500 smoke pots, 2,000 smoke hand grenades, 2 tons of smoke-producing compound, and improvised smoke means (coniferous branches, damp brushwood, hay, and straw). The chiefs of chemical services for the rifle corps assumed responsibility for the execution of the smoke plan. The corps commanders indicated the placement of the smoke screens and their ignition times. As noted by General Pavel Ivanovich Batov, commander of the 65th Army, "This experience became a fine base for successfully overcoming many subsequent rivers, especially those like the Narev, Vistula and Oder."
Soviet Operational Deception: the Red Cloak by Lt Col Richard N. Armstrong
Though, note there is no reference to smoke arty ammo, but -only possibly- for the " 20.000 smoke cannisters" in the Table 1.
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AFAIK the more used "impact fuze" grenades in the WW2 were the italian ones, such as the granada de mano modelo OTO,
granada de mano S.R.C.M. o Roma and
(((links went quite slow lately))).
Known as "red devils", due to their colour and unreliable fuzes, which failed to explode and let the battlefield sown with dangerous unexploded grenades.
As related here
NZ 5th Field Regiment 1941 Baggush - Syria
The danger was in the heavy ball which on impact press a spring-and-sting and blows the fuze. Though it is -nominally- an offensive grenade, that ball can kill anybody several dozens meters away. It is the same case of the nº 69 british grenade, used playfully till someone ended with a ball inside. Later this grenade gave born to the The Grenade with Instant Fame .Most chaps had a few Italian hand grenades, which we called Red Devils. Pretty harmless we thought, and people were in the habit of throwing them at each other. Later on we were to learn this was a rather dangerous practice.A few other links on the nº 69 british grenade:
Ananova - 'Beer bottle' turns out to be unexploded grenade
Away to Scotland History of the North Shore Regiment
BattleFieldRelics.co.uk WW2 No.69 Grenade. 1940 dated. IncompleteThen Capt. Dick Palmer, who was acting as Support Company commander, stepped on a ¨blind¨ No. 69 grenade left there carelessly by another unit that had occupied the area. The explosion damaged severely his left instep and a very good officer was lost to the North Shore.
Regards,It was Matt Busby and a faulty no. 69 grenade that made Tommy Cheadle into Port Vale's centre-half and captain. Matt Busby, then captain of Liverpool, was Cheadle's PTI. Matt was the Unit centre-half. Playing behind the cultured Scot, Tommy studied the art of centre-half and finally moved into the position himself.Move now to 1944, a battlefield in Holland. The Monmouths are attacking. Private Cheadle throws a grenade. It goes off almost in his hand and Tommy wakes up in Hospital. Enter now another PTI - Ken Fish, trainer of Port Vale.
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Can´t say it will help you, but there are new Catalyst 4.7 in the ATI webpage
http://www2.ati.com/drivers/Catalyst_47_release_notes.html
NOT THAT I HAVE USED THEM!
Nor endorse them in any way,
if it works, I´m not in the mood of trying to fix anything.
Just discover it when Messenger doesn´t worked and freezed my computer.
My alternative fix: unloading Messenger.
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Source is "Para! Fifty years of the Parachute Regiment" by Peter Harclerode, pages 38 and ff, only the mentions on enemy forces:
At that point, however, six german heavy tanks appeared and attacked the battalion, as did a number of Messerschmitt fighters which strafed the paratroops. These were followed by six Stuka dive bombers.On the following morning, 1 December, a column of enemy armoured vehicles was observed approaching from the direction of Oudna. After a while the column halted at a range of about 2.000 yards ...At that point C Company reported that three armoured vehicles, two tanks and an armoured car, were approaching from a different direction and that they were displaying the 1st British Army recognition signal, which was a yellow triangle. Frost naturally assumed that this was the leading element of the forces with which the battalion was to link up during the advance on Tunis. This illusion was shattered a few minutes later when C Company´s commander, Major John Ross, reported that the vehicles were German ...During the afternoon, at about 1500 hours, the enemy mounted their initial assault with light tanks and infantry mounted in armoured halftracks. Heavy artillery and mortar fire was brought down on the battalion ......//... 2nd December ...//...At approximately 1500 hours the enemy opened fire with mortars and subsequently with machine guns. ...
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Beg pardon, my misunderstanding.I wasn't saying it was the ww2 2"
Question? What question? It is/was a doubt!. Of course, if you saw those mortars in the demo, fired while been holding with one hand, that would dissipate my doubt. ((and yes, I can imagine you were at a longer distance than you wish. If fire demos included MBT and heavy guns, they put you safely away. )).you answered your own questionThanks for the link!
amplified image of the 51mm mortar
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The fashion of "commando"-type mortars
In the late seventies and eighties of the past century, a kind of mortars was reborn. The Japanese Army used in WW2 the "infamously" called "Knee mortar", specially noted for his misgivious name, that led allied soldiers to employ captured mortars using their own legs as baseplates (or so told allied manual, that overemphasized "How NOT to use that weapon").
The new theories post-Vietnam led to the use of lighter weapons, with more punch and requiring less personnel. Mortars hold with one -or both hands- were designed and marketed.
Both the modern 51mm british mortar and the ECIA 60 MM "Commando" mortar were members in that tribe, and there were others I can´t place now. For one, the spanish 60mm model was tried in units, but AFAIK not in wholespread regular service. There are leftovers of the preseries in several elite units
Personally I´ve always considered disturbing the "hand-holding" issue (perhaps influenced by the horror tales of the "knee mortar"). The shockwave of firing, continually and for long time can´t be good for both hand-bones and tendons!, though the use of gloves and an aislant holder.
Regards.
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I find it odd, that a private in the paratroopers would know to do that with the mortar rounds, but a captain in the Rangers didn't.
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Well, it is just a movie. And I have no idea how disseminated that type of info was. Certainly it was nothing you'd contemplate unless totally desperate.
-dale
Note: what follows are funded speculations, based in Hogg´s book cited in a previous post, and the excerpting of some mortar manual I have fast-readed. I only own an annex on the tactical use of 81 mm mortars, Laffitte and Valero -one big brother of the 50mm one-.
The knowledge on "how-fuzes-and-safety-catches-work"
Mortar grenades case
Refering to the Army, excluding mortar-rounds/fuzes producers, and their personnel (male and female).
a) Technical NCOs
Those in charge of explosive ammo, grenades, mortar rounds and so.
They "need-to-know", mainly to supervise the arm-on of that kind of rounds and to teach it to the ammo NCO/Corporal in the mortar crew (case of the 3" mortars).
((Apart from other reasons, that´s why it was a very good idea to use the same system in all types of mortar rounds -when possible-)).
The manteinance/repairment of fuzes corresponds him, also, though I think it was mainly preventive: assure fuzes are not corroded; nor drowned; nor mistrated, ... etc
In cases of necessity -scarcity, siege,...- he HAD to put in order enough "doubtful-fuzes/rounds", and best, all-of-them.
Ammo NCO/Corporal in each crewTo suplement (a) in every mortar/battery.
c) Mortar commander
He had to know exactly how fuzes-and-mortar-rounds worked. Mainly, to instile in him the absolute respect to the proper procedures in case of misfire ((classic in mortars)), and a horror-tale to inspire his men that respect.
Useful also to supplement (a) and (
.d) probably I left out others. Suggests?
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Back to the point, even a lowly private CAN know the fuze-workaround, if he is specialized enough.
A Political-Economy teacher of mine repeated, thrice per semester, ""La especialización en Ciencia, más que una virtud es una conveniencia"" (("Specialization in Science, more than a Virtue is a convenience"). But I digress...
A Rangers Captain was specialized in leading men... Also in all weapons, both reglamentary and special -all of them-, and enemy weapons ... On every kind of tactics, both sane and less-sane ... He had to know enough, about almost everything and every-tasks in his command. The private had to know everything, in one task.
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The spanish catch-phrase related is:
""Las reclamaciones/quejas, al Maestro Armero"".
(( Claims/Complaints, to the Tech Sergeant.- Is a classic in the noble sport of passing-the-buck/hotpotato. ))
I can imagine a soldier in the old Tercios, claiming to his Sarge (he who carries the halbard): "Saaargeee, my ´cabuzzz does´nt work anymore. And that "noble" man, with enough problems to kill six captains, using the magical phrase to evade/dilate ...
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Regards...
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In Re to SailorM:
the 51mm mortar is not the same weapon as the classic 2" . Can´t say what weapon was used in that demo, but find doubtful it was the old.The 2" mortar (sorry, 51mm) was still in use in the British Army in 2001, since I saw it used at a firepower demonstration on Salisbury Plain. 2 of them produced a smoke screen say 200m long in about 6 or 8 rounds at c 400m range, very quickly (less than 30 secs I would say). Since the ground dipped from the firing point and then rose again, they werefiring only 30deg or so from the horizontal (definitely not in the upper register). Very light, and versatile weapon.
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Question for flamingknives :
Don´t you forget the weight of the ammo box (or containers), the proyection charges box, the tool box, the mouthcover, the cleaning tools...So 22.5 lbs of ammo each, plus an 19lb mortar for one of them
((almost sure I forget something)).
-- Yes! A handgun at least for one and a knife for the other.
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The British Army "Light Mortar Competition"
In the early thirties the British Army had the Stokes 3" mortar -produced by Vickers- as the company indirect fire support weapon, but they felt the need for a lighter mortar. Something as a grenade-launcher, since the reglamentary rifle grenade, model 54, was judged unsatisfactory.
Rules were set and the candidates were:
(1) A 2,5" mortar presented by the Birmingham Small Arms Company ;
(2) one or two more mortars in the same 2,5" caliber;
(3) a spigot model, designed by our old friend, the Lt-Col Blacker. His invention was retired, due to the complexity of the ammo. ((In a month´s time he retried with several corrections and get a contract for the Parnall Aircraft Company to produce a model with 60 or 70 grenades to test it. No further notice -AFAIK- till the frantic 1940 months of the Home Guard race to find anything lethal enough. Then his babies reborn as the
Spigot Mortar Emplacements in the United Kingdom.
Even Today, they survive as structures near Eckington Bridge, WorcesterShire and Pershore Bridge, Worcs )). The rest, is history (the experiments lightening the Blacker´s bombard, and finally the PIAT).
and the winner in the mortar competition wasss... -after comparative trials in late 1937-
4) the spanish "Valero"/Ecia 50mm mortar. In fact, A mortar have been bought to experiment with it around 1934. With several improvements to easier its production, an initial run-up was ordered in November 1937 to test in units. It included ten mortars with 1.600 HE grenades and another 1.600 smoke ones. (( ""gases"" in the original,-that is fumes or gas grenades-, but I´m certain they were smoke ammo)).
The units tests went well, and in February 1938 the Master General of the Ordnance ordered a first serial production of 500 mortars and their ammo, whith no more delays.
Source is "Grenades and mortars", by Ian V. Hogg -indirectly via the following paragraphs/links-.
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Al mismo tiempo, en el ejército británico estaba en servicio el modelo Stokes de 3" y seguían buscando algo más ligero como suplemento de las granadas de fusil. En el período entre las dos guerras la granada reglamentaria en el ejército británico era la 54, modelo no del todo satisfactorio y se pensó que un mortero ligero, como alguien lo llamó un"lanzagranadas", sería un elemento de utilidad para el pelotón de infantería. Durante la década de los años treinta se estudiaron varios diseños; hacia 1934 se compró y experimentó un modelo español, el mortero Ecia de 50 mm.
Otro competidor en este campo fue el lanzagranadas presentado por el teniente coronel Blacker. Este hombre fue un extraordinario protagonista del "mortero de espiga", sistema en el que el elemento director del mortero estaba constituido por un vástago sólido de acero y el proyectil tenía la cola hueca la que se deslizaba por el citado vástago para efectuarla carga. El cartucho estaba situado dentro de esta cola y al producirse el disparo, la expansión de los gases proyectaba la granada siguiendo la dirección de la espiga; unas de las ventajas principales que se adujeron fue que la construcción de los tubos constituía probablemente el mayor retraso en la fabricación de armamento y al reemplazarlo por algo tan simple como una espiga de acero, se mejorarían las posibilidades de aprovisionamiento en tiempo de guerra. También tenía la de que, siempre que el interior del tubo tuviese las dimensiones correctas, el resto de la bomba carecía de importancia, pudiendo dispararse Proyectiles de cualquier tamaño o forma desde una misma espiga. Sin embargo, el proyecto fue rechazado pues, aunque el arma en sí resultase relativamente sencilla, el modelo de bomba que Blacker presentó fue considerado demasiado complicado.
Antes de un mes Blacker volvió a la carga con una serie de diseños que refutaron con muchas de las objeciones y se dio un contrato a la Parnall Aircraft Company para producir un arma con 60 o 70 granadas para pruebas.
También se presentó un mortero de 2,5" de calibre realizado por la Birmingham Small Arms Company, más uno o dos más aproximadamente del mismo calibre y hacia finales de 1937 se llevó a cabo una prueba comparativa con todos los modelos disponibles.
-------------------------------------------------El español Ecia demostró ser superior a todos los demás y el departamento de proyectos militares propuso algunas modificaciones con el fin de simplificar la fabricación. Una vez introducidas éstas, se encargaron diez morteros con 1.600 granadas rompedoras y 1.600 de gases para ser ensayados en las unidades en noviembre de 1937. El resultado de estas pruebas fue la confirmación de que el proyecto era perfecto y en febrero de 1938 el Director de Artillería, responsable de la adquisición de armamento, decidió hacer un pedido de 500 morteros junto con la necesaria munición sin esperar másevaluaciones ni discusiones.
BTW, anyone who read that book (and spanish fluent) will find it familiar, up to the point to "suspect"
if the Coronel Ian V. Hogg uses as an alias: Marcello Francini .I´m going to post-in-the-guessbook of the following webpage (or wrote to the webmaster),
E. Fontenla, to test if he has been framed, and he is in a good-faith unknowledge.
IMO, it´s either a fragant case of plagiarism, in the worst case, and abusive "clipping"-without-giving-credit in the
milder. :mad: :mad:
The Ballantine edition of Hogg´s "Grenades and mortars" was edited in Spain by the Editorial San Martín, excelent book.
Francisco Sánchez
P.S.
Does anyone knows a web address for Mr Hogg? -provided he still alives-
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A few excerpts from:
Mortars between the wars - by WL Ruffell
The original 2-inch mortar featured a large base plate and collimating sights with elevation and cross-level bubbles but experience soon brought modifications. Subsequent marks carried much smaller base plates and dispensed with sights. Laying was by eye and judgement, the sole aid being a white line painted on the barrel. The shortness of the barrel precluded the use of the Stokes principle for firing so a small trigger (or trip) mechanism was provided at the breech. The standard projectile was a HE bomb with an impact fuze in the nose and a four-finned tail unit with a single primary cartridge.Few other nations adopted 5-cm mortars; notable exceptions were Germany, Italy, Japan and the Soviet Union. Performances were comparable with the British 2-inch but all were heavier and were mounted on bipods as orthodox types of greater calibre. By the end of the war they had largely ceased to be employed.An interesting example of a foreign 5-cm mortar was the German 'granatwerfer' (literally 'grenade-thrower') Model 1936. Tests on a captured specimen carried out in Britain in 1941 prompted the report that it was 'well-constructed and easy to operate but the degree of accuracy is unnecessarily high!' Surely this must be the first time any weapon was ever classed as too accurate!
((Here the author is mistaken regarding the spanish mortars: from thirties till fifties, the Valero 50 mm outnumbered vastly the Valero 60 mm. They were replaced with the mortero ECIA de 60 mm, during the sixties decade.))Other nations, including China, France, Spain, and the United States, adopted 6-cm mortars based on a French design. The 6-cm mortar was a much heavier equipment than the 5-cm, with a maximum range of 1640 yards (1500 m). Not only was the 6-cm too heavy for platoon use, but the maximum range was too great for a platoon's needs. They all looked pretty much alike ... -
The british 2" mortar was a licensed copy of the spanish "Valero" 50 mm mortar, designed by the infantry Captain Vicente Valero de Bernabé y Casañez. He associated with the industrialist Juan Esperanza Salvador, funding in 1925 the society "Esperanza y Cía”, builder of the later ECIA mortars.
An article on the grenade of the spanish original mortar, and its inertial fuze is here:
Granada de mortero Valero de 50 mm
Though, the british ammo used a different fuze, and impact one. During the SCW there were also variants with impact fuzes in the Valero mortars -both the 50 and 81 mm-).
Another photo os the Seville variant of the 50 mm Valero mortar is here.
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FM 71-100-3 Chptr 7 Environmental Considerations
As a matter of fact, the height of the dust column raised depends more on winds and heat than the speed of the vehicle.With the desert's loose surface material, observers can easily detect movement because of the flying sand and dust. In an actual engagement, this cloud may obscure a unit, protecting it from direct fire as it advances. But the element of surprise is probably lost.Moving at night maybe the logical choice. The dust is still there, and vehicles (which should be widely spaced) can get separated. But there is no worry about enemy detection from a dust column or the sun's rays reflecting on glass, mirrors, or metal. These can give away movement and positions at distances of up to 20 kilometers.
Observe that here, in "Techniques for operating vehicles" there is no such thing as "drive slowly in order to not raise dust":
Moreso, in special areas a "minimum speed is needed":Techniques for Operating VehiclesThe best time to drive on sand is at night or early morning when the sand is damp and traction is better. By reducing tire pressure, vehicles may gain some traction. However, prolonged driving on partially deflated tires overheats tires and breaks down sidewalls.
Evenly distributing loads helps operators control their vehicles. Also, operators must apply good driving skills to avoid harsh jolting of tires and extreme wear on tracks, wheels, springs, and shock absorbers.
Crossing dunes requires careful reconnaissance. Units should stay on the upwind side if possible. The wind may have built up sand around small scrubs forming small hills. Because of poor traction, wheeled vehicles should not attempt to move through areas where this has occurred.
Salt marshes are normally impassable, especially those with a dry crust of silt on top. A surface crust might cover sandy areas, which could impede travel.
To extract a sand-trapped vehicle, units should carry at least enough pierced steel planking or galvanized iron to put under, and allow traction for, the driving wheels. Also effective are canvas sand mats, preferably with lateral strips of metal for strength and traction.
Other essential emergency equipment includes jacks, jack blocks, tow ropes, shovels, axes, and picks for use in vehicle recovery. Winch-equipped vehicles should not normally lead movements; they should locate near the rear.
Appendix 3 TECHNIQUES FOR OPERATING EQUIPMENT IN THE DESERTSome sand areas will be covered by a surface crust. This is caused by chemicals in the ground cementing sand particles together, In many cases it will be possible to drive on top of this crust and minimize dust signature and the chance of bogging down. Consider the following techniques when driving on a crust:Use staggered columns to facilitate movement. As a general rule vehicles should not follow one behind the other.
Ensure vehicles maintain a minimum speed (determined from experience) below which they will break through the crust.
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The map is here, in the fourth chapter, entitled "2nd Division", under a destroyed bridge photo:
Japanese Armoured Units on Java Island, 1942
-that is, if it works, being a geocities site
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The CMBB´s "sewer movement" represents the subterranean movement-and-combat, historically associated with the sieges (and long term urban-combat). That means a long struggle inside a city.
No sieges, no need of "sewer movement".
It also requires subterraneans passages, either sewers, water conducts, catacombs, wine-cellars, or even secret passages (common in jewrys, old towns and castles). Most of them existed -and even exist today- in a lot of old towns builded by the classic romans, both in Italy and in the north of Africa (speaking of the theater of operations of CMAK).
I see the need of it for "what-if" ops, such as a Cairo/Rome/Naples last defense.
On a related matter, mine-and-countermines are absent from CM, in the "tunnel mine" variant. According to this source, though, they were used in the russian front:
The Origins of Military Mines: Part I By Major William C. Schneck
Tunnel mining has continued sporadically into the modern era and was used by Napoleon at Acre (1799), the Crimean War (Sevastopol),25 General Grant's men in the American Civil War (Vicksburg26 and Petersburg27), the Russo-Japanese War (Port Arthur28), World War I (Western Front29 and the Isonzo Front30), World War II (Russian Front31), and the French-Indochina War (Dien Bien Phu32). Most recently, the Peruvians used tunnel mines to liberate hostages held in the Japanese ambassador's residence in Lima. The North Koreans may use them in the future--some of their tunnels have been discovered under the demilitarized zone (DMZ) and more are suspected.
((Yes, I can imagine the possible "wildly use" could be made of this "tunnel-mines", but in the Spanish Civil War they were used quite extensively -in Toledo and Teruel (certainly), and in Oviedo and Madrid (if I´m not mistaken)- . So, if there is a wish-list for CM2, please add the "tunnel-mines to it, please! ))31 Small Unit Actions During the German Campaign in Russia, CMH Pub 104-22, Center of Military History, Washington, D.C., Facsimile edition 1988, pages 165-168). The "Blitzkrieg" oriented German Army of WWII maintained special "Minier Pioniere" units throughout the war (Pioniere, Entwicklung einer Deutschen Waffengattung, by Dietrich Petter, Wehr und Wissen Verlagsgesellschaft MBH, Darmstadt, Germany, 1963, page 245). The British and Canadians are retained this type of unit during WWII.
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Just finished reading the spanish translation "Nápoles 1944", from the book
"Naples ’44 .An intelligence officer in the Italian labyrinth", 1978 by Norman Lewis.
There is related the following episode, in the pages 41 to 45:
Since it´s a retranslation, I beg pardon to the late Mr Lewis"" 13 October (1943)This week our activities have been prevented and even frustrated by false alarms and frights of every imaginable kind. Everyone whose activities separate from the usual established in the town is considered to be a spy, and we have been involved in endless useless searches. None of these night incursions has given any results. The supposed spies always were eccentric and inoffensive individuals.
( // ... //).
All that, comes to foment the incredulity, for what, when a few days ago we start receiving reports on some mysterious hammerings that were coming from the depths of the land we did not notice very much. But when yesterday the police of public italian safety (so sceptical as we) telephoned us to speak about the blows, adding that they have been heared even by a policeman of high range, we had to pay attention to the matter. It had been reported of hammering in very distant zones, all in the north part of the city. According to the theory of the police, endorsed by many rumors and certain credible evidence, a SS patrol had volunteered to remain in Naples after the retreat of the Germans and had concealed in the catacombs, wherefrom they might do a surprise incursion anytime. In case it was true, also there existed the possibility
that their plans were trumped and they had got lost in the darkness of an immense labyrinth of which only partial planes existed, and in which case, the blows might explain as an attempt of calling the attention in order that they were saved from their difficulty.
Only a small part of the catacombs -that are the biggest of Italy, and maybe of the world- is accessible to tourists, and the police had problems to find a former complete map of them. There was no way to know how reliable it was, since earthquakes on the past and collapses were sure to have happened. Nevertheless, the map was studied in relation to the emplacement of the places in which the blows had been heard and, being the widespread opinion that the Germans were there in someplace, it was assembled a force of approximately fifty men, formed by the Italian police, the body of American counterespionage and we themselves, to enter the catacombs and to explore them.
Of both networks of catacombs that exist in Naples, the principal one, which was the one that was worrying us, has the entrance on the posterior part of San Gennaro's church. It is believed that they date back to the 1st century and consist of four galleries, excavated one under other one, and each of which has numerous ramifications and lateral alleys. The two lower galleries had sunk partially and had not been accessible in the modern epoch.
It was decided to enter the catacombs soon after the dawn and we come to the church in twelve jeeps, splendidly supplied with equipment of espeology, besides the service weapons. ((// ... //))
The Americans were taking lamps as reflectors in miniature; they were shining in the walls of the anterooms that we cross up to coming to the galleries, ((// ... //)). Questioned over the possibility of the presence of Germans in the catacombs, the monk had answered in an evasive and suspicious form. Soon it became evident that we were looking for a needle in a haystack. We were crossing alleys crammed with bones with innumerable lateral diversions, each of them with many dark chambers, in any of which the Germans might have hidden, or might jump suddenly on us if still alive.
If really they had hidden themselves in the catacombs (and we all remained convinced of that), they must have been in the dark almost fifteen days since the batteries of the lanterns had died. After which, they would have been made to go by touch or they would have crawled among the bones, confronting frightful dangers. In the second gallery we come suddenly to a dark abyss. The lights allowed us to see the bottom, where the soil had sunk from wall to wall, a heap of powder of which some ancient nervures were standing out. We lowered a microphone in the hole and listened while the monk was grumbling to our backs, but the silence below was absolute.
We resign the search and return. It was two days since the last informs of blows and, despite the starvation that they would were in, it was very strange that the force had left the men so suddenly up to the point of which we couldn´t hear a shout nor a groan. The widespread opinion was that the monk knew more than he was ready to say. The commissioner of police suggested that there existed the possibility that he had entered the catacombs and rescued the Germans. Be as it will be,
it is slightly improbable that we manage to know ever. ""
Obituary: Norman Lewis Thursday, July 24, 2003
any misspellings and errors are mine, and not his. I include also the spanish translation (for the languages-grogs).
((Credits to Angela Pérez Gómez, translater:
"" 13 de OctubreEsta semana nuestras actividades se han visto obstaculizadas e incluso frustradas por falsas alarmas y sustos de todo género imaginable. Todo aquel cuyas actividades se aparten de alguna forma de las pautas de normalidad establecidas por el municipio es considerado un espia, y nos hemos visto implicados en interminables búsquedas inútiles. Ninguna de estas incursiones nocturnas ha dado resultados. Los supuestos espías siempre eran individuos excéntricos e inofensivos.
(//...//).
Todo esto viene a fomentar la incredulidad, por lo que, cuando hace unos días empezamos a recibir informes sobre unos misteriosos golpeteos que llegaban de las profundidades de la tierra no hicimos mucho caso. Pero cuando ayer la policía de seguridad pública italiana (tan escéptica como nosotros) nos telefoneó para hablar de los golpes, añadiendo que los había oído incluso un policía de alto rango, no nos quedó más remedio que prestar atención al asunto. Se había informado del golpeteo en diferentes zonas muy distantes unas de otras en la parte norte de la ciudad. Según la teoría de la policía, respaldada por muchos rumores y cierta evidencia verosímil, una patrulla de SS se había ofrecido voluntaria para quedarse en Nápoles tras la retirada de los alemanes y se había ocultado en las catacumas, de donde podría hacer una incursión sorpresa en cualquier momento. En caso de que fuera cierto, también existía la posibilidad de que sus planes hubieran fallado y se hubieran perdido en la oscuridad de un inmenso laberinto del que sólo existen planos parciales, y en cuyo caso, los golpes podrían explicarse como un intento de llamar la atención para que los salvaran de su apuro.
Sólo una pequeña parte de las catacumbas -que son las más grandes de Italia, y tal vez del mundo- es accesible a los turistas, y la policía había tenido problemas para encontrar un antiguo plano completo de las mismas. No había modo de
saber hasta que punto seguía siendo preciso después de los daños causados por los temblores de tierra del pasado y los hundimientos que estaban seguros de que habían causado. Sin embargo, el plano se estudió en relación con el emplazamiento de los lugares en que se habían oído los golpes y, siendo la opinión generalizada que los alemanes se encontraban allí en algún sitio, se reunió una fuerza de unos cincuenta hombres formada por la policía italiana, el cuerpo de contraespionaje americano y nosotros mismos, para entrar en las catacumbas y explorarlas.
De las dos redes de catacumbas que hay en Nápoles, la principal, que era la que nos preocupaba a nosotros, tiene la entrada por la parte posterior de la iglesia de San Gennaro. Se cree que datan del siglo I y consisten en cuatro galerias, excavadas una debajo de la otra, y cada una de las cuales tiene numerosas ramificaciones y pasadizos laterales. Las dos galerías inferiores se habían hundido parcialmente y no habían sido accesibles en la época moderna.
Se decidió entrar en las catacumbas poco después del amanecer y llegamos a la iglesia en doce jeeps, espléndidamente pertrechados con el equipo de espeología habitual, además de las armas reglamentarias. ((//...//))
Los americanos llevaban lámparas como reflectores en miniatura; brillaban en las paredes de las antesalas que cruzamos
hasta llegar a las galerías, ((//...//)). Interrogado acerca de la posibilidad de que hubiera alemanes en las catacumbas, el
monje había contestado de forma evasiva y sospechosa. Pronto se hizo evidente que estábamos buscando una aguja en un pajar.
Recorríamos pasadizos atestados de huesos con innumerables desviaciones laterales, cada una de ellas con muchas cámaras oscuras, en cualquiera de las cuales podrían haberse escondido los alemanes, o de las que podrían saltar súbitamente sobre nosotros si aún estaban vivos. Si realmente se habían ocultado en las catacumbas (y todos seguíamos convencidos de que así era), debían de llevar a oscuras casi quince días desde que se les habían acabado las pilas de las linternas. Tras lo cual, se habrían abierto paso a tientas o se habrían arrastrado entre los huesos, afrontando peligros espantosos. En la segunda galería llegamos súbitamente a un abismo oscuro. Las luces nos permitieron ver el fondo, donde el suelo se había hundido de pared a pared, un montón de polvo del que sobresalían algunas nervaduras antiguas. Hicimos oscilar un micrófono en el
agujero y escuchamos mientras el monje rezongaba a nuestras espaldas, pero el silencio abajo era absoluto.
Renunciamos a la búsqueda y regresamos. Hacía dos días que habían informado por última vez de los golpes y, por muy cerca de la inanición que estuvieran, era muy extraño que la fuerza hubiera abandonado a los hombres tan súbitamente hasta el punto de que no pudiéramos oír ni un grito ni un gemido. La opinión generalizada era que el monje sabía más de lo que estaba dispuesto a decir. El comisario de policía sugirió que existía la posibilidad de que hubiera entrado en las catacumbas y hubiera rescatado a los alemanes. Sea como fuere, es poco probable que lleguemos a saberlo. ""
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In 1956 the only weapon on AMX-13s was the 75 mm gun.
The 90 mm gun was introduced in the AMX-13 in 1966.
The high velocity of the AMX, combined with a light armor is more the american doctrine in tank-hunters than the german one. I see the AMX more similar to the Hellcat than anything else.
There are no captured Hellcats, aren´t they?
(( Edited to correct the "Hellcaesm"-ism ))
[ June 09, 2004, 01:30 AM: Message edited by: Paco QNS ]
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Can´t find now my "La Luftwaffe", by Cajus Bekker -the spanish translation-.MikeyD wrote:We're mostly discussing mobile stuff used defensively. There could be some discussion about the use (or misuse) of towed AA (like German single 20mm mounts) during offensive operations. Towing a 20mm gun across an active battlefield and setting up under fire sounds like it would be just as difficult in real life as it is in CM!
But I remind clearly how he cites in the Poland campaign the use of 20 mm. AA guns (along with the 88 mm. guns). The first ones were used against machine-guns towers, and the later against bunkers. And yes, certainly, I remember quite clearly how he described what a b*tch was to move them!
// Off Topic -forgive me-, but while searching for this story I found this link on the Romanian Air-to-Ground forces, in both sides!:
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Yes. It is unavailable now.
It had a table of casualties per unit, that´s was more interesting in it.
I add this other
Operation Tiger Pages, Slapton Community Webs
It includes in News - Exercise Tiger a couple of oral testimonies.
Regards,
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Give the mortar a very short "Move to" order. This will delay it -along with the mounting time- for an amount of seconds.
if the Coronel Ian V. Hogg uses as an alias:
Scenario depot is sending an SOS
in Combat Mission - Scenario Talk
Posted
Just seen, just sent !