Ataru *~

Alright, no more assailing of pillboxes with 14 inchers then, thx David. As for the the crater thing, I understand that it wouldn't happen quite like than in real life, but would the crater not be carved as deep? Would it not still blast thru the dirt under and around the pillbox? Or do pillboxes go deep into the earth? If not I don't see how a shell capable of plowing a 20+ meter diameter crater thru the earth could fail to, well, mess one up should it land next to it. M Hofbauer- well, ya got me on the MG ammo thing then. But your argument that StuG's often run out of ammo doesn't change the fact that extra AP rounds on a StuG are practically useless and that ya don't get all that much out of a few extra HE rounds. More than out of a second MG without additional ammo perhaps, tho. Hehe, I tend to be a stat junky normally, but sadly I'm away from CM ATM and thus must rely on my faulty memory of CM's StuG loadout... oh, the humanity. I still have ya on the additional armor and 1 mph difference tho. *evil grin* BTW I play mainly small infantry heavy engagements, but I still run out of AFV ammo quite often. Just not AP, and rarely HE with StuGs. Ataru

Hehe, that last line was written before you guys asked what the symbols meant; wasn't trying to taunt anyone. Alright, it's actually an anime reference. Ataru Moroboshi is the name of a character from a certain old anime called Urusei Yatsura...(incidentally it began in the year I was born, and is my favorite series) Ataru means hit and Moroboshi basically means shooting star. A pun when read knowing the character's circumstances. The asterisk with tilde is supposed to look somewhat like a shooting star. Ataru

More ammo eh? Not that much more tho. One has to consider that those 9 rounds could be HE, AP or smoke... Let's pretend ya get 3 more HE, 5 more AP and 1 more smoke round. Because StuGs I believe are given a larger amount of AP than HE. How often do you run out of AP with StuGs? C'mon now, tell the truth. If they die quickly, no chance of using all that ammo... if they survive for a long time, they or other tanks tend to have taken out all tank opposition, or the other tanks are hiding. In either case, the AP that's left is of *very* little value. In this case more HE is nice... but 3 rounds? Against infantry, wouldja rather have 3 more rounds of infantry or a second machine gun? (with plenty of extra bullets) 1 smoke round extra.. well, that doesn't make me jump out of my seat. I daresay the thicker armor of the StuG III G is more valuable vs. tanks than the extra AP of the StuG IV, and the extra machine gun more useful against infantry than 3-5 HE shells extra. Throw in that 1 MPH speed advantage and who's gonna want a StuG IV? I'd say if the StuG III G isn't made more expensive, the prices should at least be equalized, if in fact the prices are based purely on effectiveness. But the whole StuG example isn't nearly as pronounced as the flamethrower one. I'd say a German flamethrower team is worth nearly twice as much as an American one. Others may disagree... but who wants to argue that it's worth the same amount? And hey, I like asterisks. But there's a reason for the asterisk and tilde in my nick... I doubt anyone here would know what it is, but that's ok. Ataru

I believe they're both called pillboxes in the game. If so, there isn't a distinct difference between bunkers and pillboxes in the game. (hehe, because bunkers wouldn't exist) I admit that I've been considering pillboxes bunkers... is this wrong guys? Anyway, I don't THINK BTS was referring to the wooden variety, but what do I know? Anyone care to cut and paste from a handy readme? (I'm not on my CM comp ATM) If you're right M18, well, that's that. But I still wonder how a pillbox can have a huge crater carved around it with no ill effects. Not to mention how a huge arty shell can go off right in front of a pillbox without even shocking it, when infantry squads happily (hehe, well not really *happily*) plink pillbox crews with small arms fire at much longer distances. Ataru

M Hofbauer, BTS feels that concrete pillboxes are not in fact invincible, or they wouldn't have said they "fixed" the problem of their being too resilient in the past. The concrete of CM's bunkers is 500 mms thick IIRC... and I did test with the <*~14 inchers~*>... tho I'd thought somewhat less powerful shells should penetrate as well, I wasn't about to suggest bunkers cave in to measly 75 mm arty bombardments. As for why I brought up the StuG and Flamethrower prices, once again, AS I UNDERSTAND, (could certainly be wrong) CM unit prices are based purely on performance. And purely based on performance, the StuG prices are all outta whack with eachother, as are infantry flamethrower prices. I'm not here to say this is all wrong, but to let the people who might think it is (BTS or anyone who feels like having BTS make balance point adjustments) know. And I curse thee for telling me to search. Pleased at having received a *cough* polite *cough* and humorous reply, if a not exactly anticipated one, Ataru

*chuckles* "Niggly?" One could say that CM's environmental sound effects, such as birds chirping, are "niggly," if moving wheels and smoking craters apply. So too would the nice explosions BTS added after release be "niggly." Increased poly count on infantry would actually be technically "niggly" if I understand the term, serving only as eye candy, improving the mechanics of the game not in the least. I'd like it, sure, but I'd ASSUMED such a thing would definitely occur at some point, tho maybe not in CM1, because I believe the reason it hasn't already been done is lodged in today's comps' capabilities. (or rather inabilities) "Niggly" things like improved explosions, smoke, or moving wheels however, are less of a strain... and thus more worth mentioning. As to more terrain tiles, tho this might not be classified a "niggle," it's not higher on my list than some. For what is better, having it all, or having less with enhanced immersion? This could be differently phrased and differently answered, of course, but I would choose the immersion. ANYWAY, my whole post comes down to this... calling someone's ideas "niggly" amounts to insulting them, and I don't think we should do this. Please keep in mind that opinions naturally vary and aren't necessarily of inequal validity. You can state yours without essentially throwing in "they're better than that guy's." BTS can decide what to do or not to do without that. Ataru [This message has been edited by Ataru *~ (edited 09-03-2000).]

Thanks KarlXII! I thought I had that on already... might I ask what other labels appear with that option turned on? Can't play CM at this moment, and I'm curious as to what I've been missing with that turned off. Ataru

I'd just like to say that I feel smoking craters, as well as moving wheels in vehicles, would greatly add to immersion for a worthwhile performance hit; that is, when BTS next feels like adding unrequired but duly appreciated chrome. Ataru

Mikeydz, how can you say he meant all squads and not just crews? Can you read minds? Just going on the fact that he wrote "I hereby call for the transmogrification of all INFANTRY **crews** that have run out of ammo into half squads," (minus the asterisks I placed for highlighting purposes of course) if he writes what he means, he meant, well... crews. Ataru

Hi guys; I'm new to posting in this forum tho I've been lurking for some time. Now, some thoughts. Bunkers are still immune to artillery... or very close to it anyway. I seem to remember this problem being patched away, and I could've sworn I'd taken out bunkers with high caliber shells, but after a test I performed yesterday, I've found that they are once again too resilient. The test involved placing concrete pillboxes over a large area close enough to each other that there was no open space, and then shelling said area with arty from 6 14 inch FOs... every shell hit with a pillbox, and not a single one was knocked out. Now I'll raise a related point... (but one that did not arrise from the aforementioned test) does anyone else find it strange that large caliber arty can impact next to a bunker, carving out a crater that extends beyond the position the bunker is located in... without affecting it? Yeah, the shell didn't hit the actual concrete but jeez, the pillbox is sitting IN a huge crater. Heck, it wouldn't even have LOS on anything thru the slits anymore in RL; that is, if anyone were still alive in it. (unless the foundations of such pillboxes went down much deeper than I thought) Why do StuG IVs cost more than StuG III Gs? I believe the StuG IV has slightly better ground pressure, but it is slower, has worse armor and one less machine gun! (no other differences if I remember correctly, excluding weight and perhaps silhouette) Also, why do German Flamethrowers (infantry) have more ammo than the infantry flamethrowers of other nations, with a BETTER movement rate? And at the same price as those of the Allies? (German Flamethrowers have 150% the ammo of Allied versions, a large advantage, and medium speed compared to slow is certainly a large advantage as well) Lastly, how does one see the damage of a building other than by looking at the asterisks in the name of the terrain when looking at a unit placed in a building, or when using the LOS tool? As I understand, there is a toggle somewhere to see "damaged" or "heavily damaged," that is, if I read the readme correctly. My question is, where? All readers of this post please understand that I love this game and only wish to help; this is the first war game that I've been able to stand, and amazingly, not only stand but truly ENJOY. It is refreshing indeed how much support it has been given, and the quantity of *passionate* work that had been put into the initial release. Now, I'd appreciate it if noone tells me I've phrased my post rudely or some such and demands apologies. (seeing this oft happen is one of the reasons I'd been reluctant to enter this community before now... but don't get me wrong, I'm not too meek to bear it nor am I lumping the entire community in with the "offenders") Ataru [This message has been edited by Ataru *~ (edited 09-03-2000).]