Levine

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vanilla Thunder: However, Jeep #2 took out 2 half tracks and double digit enemy infantry casualties before being demolished by friendly artillery fire.<HR></BLOCKQUOTE> In reality, orchestrating suppressing and assault fire is a tough and risky job for any commander. In CM, however, suppressing fire miraculously ceased whenever the assault force was close enough to target. It happened on both sides, for example: enemy mortars stopped shelling friendly infantry whenever they moved into enemy foxholes (so that mortar fire won't risk own defending forces). Since it worked fine, I assumed it was taken care of by the TacAI, and never gave it a second thought Now this worries me. Are you sure the Jeep was destroyed by friendly arty? Maybe it was one of those invisible AT guns? Did you check "kills"?

Thanks for the thread link and the other comments. Very useful!

As you probably saw, we had a long discussion on the easy ID of spotters, and there seem to be a general consenus that they're too easy to spot. Bearing in mind that they don't have to be IN the line fo fire to be effective, you can leave them behind if you can figure out in advance where you'd want to place arty (e.g. on a village). Otherwise, move them with the second wave of asslting forces. I agree that firing on blind isn't the best use of them.

Gentlemen, I’m still struggling with the best use for half trucks (HT) and armored cars (AC), and would like to hear how you use them in battle. There are three possible uses I can think of, but none is ideal: 1. Infantry transportation – the classic mission of the half truck. But the arena in CM is too small to justify real use of this function. In most cases (but not always), it would be safer to have the infantry move by foot, rather than making them a sitting duck for personal AT weapons, tanks, etc. by transporting them in a half truck. 2. Infantry support – think about the HT/AC as an MG on wheels. This is very useful when moving towards enemy, with high likelihood of contact. However, HT/AC can’t be used effectively in woods, urban or hilly areas, due to the risk of AT weaponry. The enemy rarely sits in on a plain waiting for you, so again the use of HT/AC is limited. 3. Recon – Not the ideal recon vehicle, due to its size and speed, HT/AC can be used for that purpose. But again, due to the size of the arena, there’s little room for recon in CM. The situation isn’t of “is there enemy near by?” but more of “We know the enemy is very near, where is it located?” To do that you need more of a trailblazing infantry platoon, rather than light and quick recon platoon (typically, recon moves couple of miles ahead of a progressing battalion to identify threats). The result is that HT/AC (unless have AT capability) are either sacrificed to detect AT weapons or stay behind for the most of the battle, until it is safe to go. Any ideas would be appreciated.

In CM context "pause" means "pause action" and therefore doesn't make sense when you want the unit to engage enemy. I agree that there should be a stationary equivalent for "pause", i.e. high priority for engaging enemy but without moving. Maybe "rotate" (towards known enemy locations) would work as a short term substitute?

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Michael emrys: . Keeping them off hilltops and well back inside the tree line helps. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Thanks for all of your comments about concealment, which are very useful not only to spotters, but to any force. However, the concerns about spotters remain: 1. Even when in enemy LOS, spotters should be very difficult to be identified as such. Panzer man reports a case in which they were spotted from over 1000m away. Remember that we talk about two soldiers, wearing camo, often hiding. If at all identified, they should appear as "infantry?" for the most part, IMHO. 2. When identified, they receive amazingly high priority from the enemy, which literally concentrates all fire on them, including AT guns and what not. While this is show how more understandable, it is realistic that a soldier abandon fire towards all MG, half-tracks, platoon leaders and so on around him? I suggest that the priority for elimination would be SLIGHTLY reduced

Los, I'm glad you got into this discussion, and thanks for the detailed reply. Admittedly, my mortar education wasn't acquired during W.W.II. I still think, though, that a spotter can give verbal directions to a mortar that in 50 feet behind him, even if they're not from the same organic unit. On the other hand, it is the GERMAN army I tried using "direct alignment" last night, after getting a hint of it from the other responses. I noticed that the line of fire still says "view blocked" although the mortar DOES eventually shoot to area designated. However, without LOS (but WITH platoon leader directions) all fire is just "area fire", specific targets can't be set, and ambushes can't be placed. Returning to a previous point, the leader should be able to zero the mortar behind him on a target quite quickly, with little wasted ammo, and can operate as its eyes for ambushes. What about the FO? Don't you agree that they're unrealistically easy to spot? I glad we can discuss such issues of fine realism. It says a lot about the quality of this game, sorry, simulation.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ACTOR: Levine - Which, is why I keep them behind terrain that blocks LOS to their target, and keeps their target from killing them. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> Actor -- Do you target them on "view blocked" targets? How effective is that? Or Is is that the spotter just has to view the target area ONCE to provide fire, and after initiating he can get out of enemy LOS. Thanks for your knowledgeable comments.

<BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by ACTOR: 1. An 81mm Spotter is for off-board mortars, and this type of unit does not require LOS to deliver ordnance 2. Off-board spotters tend to draw plenty of fire when spotted. Keep 'em hidden. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE> 1. My forces include two 81mm mortars and a 81mm spotter. You say that the spotters can't give directions to the nearby mortars, but rather only to off board mortars. How realistic is that? 2. I fail to understand that. Identifying two men, wearing camouflage, crawling in bushes 150m away, and doing nothing but watching you is mighty difficult. Turning your back to heavy fire and hunting only these two is quite unlikely. I think that ID of spotters is way too easy (also see previous postings on the topic), and fire management towards them is unrealistically strong. In fact, you can use the poor spotters as baits, drawing enemy fire away from the main assault body. P.S. I use v1.04 with full fog o' war.

Gentlemen, I might be misunderstanding something here, but I consider the following scenario, which I experienced yesterday, to be less than realistic: Two US infantry squad, situated inside fox holes, battered by previous rifle and MG fire (casualties unknown), currently receive fire from three Axis sources: one rifle squad (inc. LMG), two half trucks (MG). All sources of fire are on their left flank. Since I can't get rid of the US squads, and moreover -- they direct artillery onto my forces, I send two 81mm artillery spotters crawling up a hill to the middle right section, just enough to get a LOS. Noticing them, the two US rifle squads STOP returning fire, rotate 45 degrees AWAY from the three fire sources, and concentrate all their efforts on eliminating my spotters. As the same time (three turns) the two 81mm mortars, located down the hill about 100m behind the spotters do nothing but "reload". Eventually, the two spotters are eliminated. Questions to this learned forum: 1. How can infantry in fox holes tell the difference between enemy rifle squad and spotters crawling behind a hill top 150m away? 2. What solider in the world would turn their backs to three sources of constant fire just to eliminate a fourth force, which is substantially small and doesn't even fire as them? 3. What's up with the slacking mortars? Do they need LOS? If yes, what's the spotter for? Any comments will be much appreciated.