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Hey fellas I don't doubt that :USERNAME: read what he did, whether the person who wrote it is living in reality is another question. After the the Panther platoon finished laughing they would have blown the Stuart to pieces. Or mabey they died laughing. I'm not complaing about the game, I like the Stuarts too. I use them the same way others here have described, because in the game they can do these things. But the topic seemed to be leaving the game and turning to reality, but painting reality with the games successes and outcomes. I've talked to many Vets, some of them hero's and if that story is true about taking out a platoon of Panthers then the Congressional Medal would not be enough for quite possibly the bravest allied tank crew of the war. Mabey he had a 20 foot hieght advantage or so and fired down at them through their top side armour. If :USERNAME: can dig that up I'd love to see if any of those fellas are still kicking, they should have free beer for life at least.

Hi Charles you certainly may be right, perhaps the specification of Euorope is significant here. I honestly don't know, if any of these claims are true or exagerated or completely false, perhaps they ment the only Nashorn to get a Pershing, but again just relaying what some of the other side has to say. As for pictures, I've seen many too. Even a knocked out JagTiger over on its side looking very bashed up. The caption under the photo read " The mighty JagTiger not so tough after all". Speaking to a group of German fellas about this they said "it was proably pushed over by 3 or 4 tanks then blown up through the underside and proably German tanks at that." You decide what you belive, as in most things in life I kind of feel truth is usually in the middle of what two opposing sides say. By the way this is the best game I've ever played, and its the most and intesting game too. What a great job, things can only get better from here in the War Gaming World. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Big Time Software: FYI, I've seen photos of a Pershing knocked out by a Tiger I (at close range at night, I think) and then a photo of that same Tiger, abandoned, after it ran across some rubble and got its tracks fouled. So the Nashorn cannot have the "only Pershing kill" honor. Charles<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I'm not saying your wrong, but there are some Germans who would disagree with you, they may be full of crap but heres a couple of points they claim, again I can't verify this so take it for what its worth: Nashorn in Action ! The most notable Nashorn ace was platoon commander of 1st company of sPzJagAbt 519, Junior Lieutenant Albert Ernst. He later commanded the 1st company of sPzJagAbt 512 (equipped with Jagdtigers). On December 23rd of 1943, he destroyed some 14 Soviet tanks in a single day using only 21 round of ammunition. The engagement took place near Vitebsk and Albert Ernst received a nickname "Tiger of Vitebsk". In December of 1943, Ernst destroyed total of 19 enemy tanks and on January 22nd of 1944, he was awarded the Knight's Cross. In early March of 1945, Lieutenant Beckmann from sPzJagAbt 88 destroyed Soviet IS-2 at the range of 4600 meters near Marzdorf. Some Nashorn crews reported that they were able to knock out Soviet T-34 tanks at distance as great as 4000 meters. Nashorn crews also reported numerous kills of KV and IS-2 tanks as well as SU-152, ISU-122 and ISU-152 assault guns. Nashorn was also responsible for the destruction of the only M26 Pershing, destroyed in Europe. Pershing from the 3rd Armored Division was knocked out at the distance of 250 meters with a single shot. This engagement took place in the town of Niehl, north of Cologne on March 6th of 1945. <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Vyper: After reading several good books about various bits of armour, I decided to run a little test and see what the maximum range of these steel monsters are. Visual: No visuals on enemy tanks occurred outside of approximately 2,500 metres. The Mark IV and Jagdpanzer IV weren't picked up until one or two minutes after their larger brethren made their presence known. Hit Capability: As would be expected, the higher the muzzle velocity (and to a smaller extend the quality of optics) the better the chance to hit. The Jagdtiger and Panther had the best first round chance (5 to 6% depending on targets profile). The King Tiger came next then the Tiger and M26. The Mark IV's and 75mm Shermans brought up the tail end with 2 to 3% chance. The chance for follow on rounds striking was typically about three times the chance of the first round (21% for the Jagdtiger at 2,450 meters). Chance to Kill: Again, no surprised, the Jagdtiger totally won this one with the Panther a distant second. The M26 wasn't too far behind then the Tiger. I was just a touch surprised that the M26 did as well as it did. The 90mm wasn't a bad cannon but it still didn't match the long 75 (from what I've read anyway) and the German optics have always been regarded as 1st class. I may run the test again with elite crews this time to see how they differ. Oh, BTW the final result was 12 allied tanks destroyed and 9 Germans. All of the Mark IV's lit up as well as two Tigers and three Jagdpanther IV's. The Jumbo Shermans literally laughed at all attempts to penetrate their frontal armour (but I'll admit the Jagdtigers used most of their AP on the M-26's).<HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

Exellent point and well said. I never ever before would consider pre-ordering a game, but when these guys bring out there next one I just might. Graphics smaphics who cares I'd rather have a well rounded game anyday. Like you say you'd need a Cray Super computer like the military use to handle so much detail. Do you think they could combine Close Combat with this game? <BLOCKQUOTE>quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Maximus: Must be from the salvation of all disgruntled gamers from mediocre games and gaming companies to which there IS a game company that can make a great bug-free game. Bug-free as in no show-stopping bugs. And as the reviews say, the graphics aren't on par with the current 3D offerings...well, as BTS has said many times before...many people over estimate what today's hardware is capable of. For a game that is totally rendered with polygons, it's gonna take a decent to high-end computer to handle this game. We're not talking 2D or 2D/Isometric here anymore. And for people who keep complaining about sprites for trees, well let me know when everybody has a 2GHz CPU w 2GB of RAM and 256MB 3D cards. To do a fully 3 dimensional tree would take a tremendous amount of polygons. I'm not bitching, I just roll my eyes when I see a review knocking the graphics in CM. It's like, "Ooo, a 3D game, let's compare it to QuakeIII." Not the same thing, bub. <HR></BLOCKQUOTE>

I think IntelWeenie has summed it up pretty good, as the great football coach Vince Lombardi said "Show me someone thats a good loser, and I'll show you a loser." I dont think some Germans belive they lost, its just that time ran out. Everything they do is better than anyone else, and perhaps a lot of the time this may be true. But where a person lives in their heart, they are matched as history will show. The people of Britain took a good pounding as well as their soldiers. Yes they got there ass kicked, but loose, never. Can you imagine being a RAF pilot in those days, I know I dont posses that kind of courage. We would have won if their armour was twice as good as it was, if their planes were twice as good and so on. Germany may still get there wish of world domination, this time its a little more subtle. Money that is, been down to some of the islands lately? Who owns them? Who are the powerhouse currency's in the world. Control the cash box and you control the world, someone once said. Just a thought.

I had just wanted to say thanks to fd ski for pointing to that bit of info and got carried away. For what its worth he claimed that the really big tanks and tank destroyerys - King Tiger JagTiger - were never knocked out by allied tanks or anti-tank guns, but were blown up by their own forces if they became disabled, and very rarely a ship shell. When checking some info about a man named Red Hassletine, who burnt up over a hundred Germans with a flamethrower, some of the fellas in his regiment The Toronto Irish, told of coming across an abandoned Panther tank in Italy. They had a little time on there hands so they decided to blow it up with some of there anti-tank weapons, they said everything they hit it with bounced off to their dismay as they might soon have to face some manned ones. A couple off Shermans were sent up from the Governor Generals Horse Gurads, and they had the same problem, finally it was packed with explosive and sealed up and finally destroyed. I dont know what main guns the Shermans had, but they had access to 17 pounders anti-tank guns, as well as piats and six pounders and so on, all with no effect leaving them very upset as they had been told that their new weapons would stop any German tank. I guess they forgot to tell them they had to do it from inside the tank. And finally Ive been unlucky with most Germans I've met, perhaps its me but they have been arrogant bastards. I dont mean to offend anyone here thats German, I'm sure most Germans are very nice, perhaps talking about the war gets there backs up, after all some movies do make them look pretty stupid, and one thing I can say for sure is they never were and are not stupid. Except Hitler and his ring of fools of course.

One of the most arrogant persons I have ever known was a German tank crewman from WW2. He never said much, but if we happened to talk about the war he'd always add in little comments. Now all I know about war was basically from the movies, so we'd be talking about the movie last night and how those Sherman tanks really busted up them poor Germans. At this Willy(thats what we called him) laughs and says"Uncle Sherman always tipped his hat to the Tiger" then a pause and "you really dont belive that garbage do you?" Fist off I didnt know what he ment and second of all I did belive it because we won the war, it had to be basically true. Next day he brings in a bunch of stuff printed in German and says look here this is why the movie is impossible(Did not understand a thing he was saying). Well it kinda got my interest up since I had always belived that we had kicked the Germans ass quite easly, I did a little research as it were and of course found things to be a little different than the movies. Now this is not the fault of American soldiers that movies are the way they are,(HOLLYWOOD) if you talk to these soldiers they tell the truth, and though they agree on how the movie ended they tend to disagree with movies on how that end was achieved. Anyway I find this all quite interesting now and hope that wars will only be fought in great games like the #1 Combat Mission. If Willy were alive I'm sure he'd take issue with some elements of CM(this guy just would not accecpt a Panther or Tiger could ever be hurt) and perhaps from a German perspective there may be one or two issues. My opinion is this is the best war game, and will proably get better as it catches fire, and the Germans were much better soldiers than these movies will ever tell, and that our heros had one hell of a fight, which I much appreciate.