cyrano01

Does anyone have any evidence on scale of issue of tungsten ammunition in the British Army. I too have read that the US only issued it to TD units and tanks ended up scrounging rounds but I have not seen anything to indicate issue practise for British APDS rounds. ------------------ The British Army always fights its battles uphill, in the pouring rain, at the junction of two map-sheets. (Field Marshal W. Slim)

Matt Cheers, good to know you have it covered. ------------------ The British Army always fights its battles uphill, in the pouring rain, at the junction of two map-sheets. (Field Marshal W. Slim)

I think I tried a couple of times but it's a good thought. I'll give it another whirl tonight. ------------------ The British Army always fights its battles uphill, in the pouring rain, at the junction of two map-sheets. (Field Marshal W. Slim)

Bumo ------------------ The British Army always fights its battles uphill, in the pouring rain, at the junction of two map-sheets. (Field Marshal W. Slim)

Or possibly even earlier, I think I've seen the following attribution for that quote, although it may be apocryphal. "Rascals, would you live forever?" Frederick the Great to the guards when they hesitated at Kolin, 1757

If anyone from BTS sees this thread do you have any thoughtds on the matter?

Try: 18 Platoon - Sydney Jary(sp?) Tank - Ken Tout Both a good match for the CM time frame and scale. Also: The Sharp End - John Ellis (I believe this is called On The Front Lines in the US). Firing Line - Richard Holmes (not sure of the US title for this one).

AlfieE I am assuming from your email address that you are a Brit, if not apologies. I was in my local branch of Waterstones the other day and stumbled across a rack full of Institut Geographique National 1:25000 maps of France so I picked up Caen and Bayeux. These are modern maps but the topography should still be OK, all I have to do now is try to estimate how much of the habitation/roads has been added and how many of the hedgerows removed since 1944! NB The branch in question was Manchester but any large bookshop might be worth a look.

Jeff No worries. I'd appreciate it if you would give it a try, so I know whether it is just me or not! It is the some can, some can't nature of the thing that is puzzling. I only noticed it first when I tried using a Humber Scout Car. Cheers

Thanks for the replies all. Jeff your material was most interesting. We do seem to be slightly at cross-purposes. The problems I have been having relate to hedges rather than Bocage hedgerows (the two are different terrain types, see pp 46-47 of the manual). I quite agree with you about wheeled vehicles not being able to penetrate Bocagefor all the reasons you cite. I too have some Bocage pictures in a book covering the British sector and the banks are a formidable obstacle. As I mentioned in my earlier post what puzzles me is that, although the manual suggests all vehicles can penetrate hedges (of the ordinary, non-Bocage variety, p47) I am finding that some can and some can't. My tests are outlined in my earlier post but included in those that can are jeeps and included in those that can't Humber and M3A1 Scout Cars. It may be that I am doing something wrong but I can't for the life of me work out what. Cheers

Michael I too had thought weight might have something to do with it so like you I was puzzled by the Jeep getting through OK. I can't figure it out. Maybe this is one for BTS, perhaps someone from there might like to comment if they have a spare moment or two.

OK, at the risk of appearing to be obsessive..... I have carried out a similar test for a range of US and German vehicles. For the US the M4, M18, Jeep, M20 and M3A1 half track passed through the hedge. The M3A1 Scout Car and Truck failed. For the Germans the MKIV G, PSW234/1, Puma, SdKfz 7 and SdKfz 251/1 passed through the hedge. The Kubelwagen and Truck failed.

Thanks for the replies chaps. Michael, I can confirm that my manual says the same as yours. I can also confirm that it is a hedge rather than Bocage. The test map is a simply a hadge right across the map with clear terrain on either side. Ground dry, by the way. I have extended the range of units in the test. These now include (all British) Sherman IIA, Ram Kangeroo, Universal Carrier, Daimler AC, M5A1 Halftrack, Jeep, Truck, Humber Scout Car, White Scout Car and Infantry Squad. Of these all get through the hedge bar three. The White and Humber Scout Cars and the Truck simply refuse to respond to a plotted Move order through the hedge. As Alice said,'Curiouser and curiouser.' I may be doing something wrong or stupid here so if anyone can throw any light on this or reproduce the results (the test only takes 5 minutes to set up) it would be helpful. Cheers

Anyone have anything to add on this one because I am flummoxed

I am playing around with setting up a scenario using a British recce unit and during testing I found that my wheeled vehicles were unable to cross hedges (not Bocage hedgerows but ordinary hedges). Page 47 of the manual suggestes that hedges are passable to all vehicles and I can't find a reference to this in the patch readme files. I have searched past threads and although there is a one that suggests wheeled vehicles cannot cross a hedge it is not definite one way or the other. To check this out I set up a test with a range of British vehicles. The tracked and half tracked ones all forged their way through the hedge. All of the wheeled ones failed with one odd exception The Daimler armoured car got through fine. I can't quite work this out although I suppose the Daimler is quite heavy for a wheeled vehicle Have I missed something somewhere or does anyone have any thoughts on this?

Kip Absolutely, I think we should discard the other possibility involving fools and seldom differing.

Beat me to it, I saw that last night and checked it in the self same book by Forty. I do recall seeing somewhere that in the motor battlions of the armoured divisions there were 4 guns in a troop but they had 3 troops. Not sure whether that still pertained in 1944.

Did you have any other HQs in the vicinity? I was caught out the other day when I cunningly moved a platoon HQ into a position where he could observe a troublesome pair of MG42s ready to direct fire from nearby mortars. At the same time I moved up my company HQ to encourage some nearby pinned units. When I tried to order the mortar fire I found that the mortars were now tracing command to the Company HQ, which could not see the MGs Too many chiefs I guess!