civdiv
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Posts posted by civdiv
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Ok, here are some of my questions since I've come back to CM after about a year away;
1. If a leader has a increased command range, does that affect his negative affect on nearby units when he breaks? What I mean is, if a HQ has an increase command range modifyer, does that mean that units further away could potentially be broken if the leader breaks?
2. Do routing units see the edge of the map as cover equivelent to, say, rough terrain, for routing purposes? For example, a unit is routing and there is a rough terrain hex 60 meters away and the map edge is 40 meters away. It always seems as if the routing units head straight off the map, but not always. What is the precedence for routing units in terms of terrain to rout to?
3. When are broken, panicked, pinned units rallied, either by themselves, or by HQ units? When does it occur? Is it ongoing, or does it always occur, say, before the player plots his moves? In SL/ASL terms, when does the rally phase take place?
4. When you only have a sound contact, how far can the icon be away from the actual target? And if you want to do area fire for suppressing, do you target the sound contact icon or the most likely nearby terrain?
5. If a weapon jam, when is it repaired? Is there only one attempt per turn? Does the unit attamept to reapair the weapon every time it would normally attempt to fire? Can a jam be repaired while moving? While hiding?
6. In scenario 200 last night, I was targetting the German PAK with everything I could throw at it, just trying to suppress it in time for my tanks to nail it with direct fire. I was hitting it with 50mm mortars (all of which fell like 80 meters short), maxims and ATRs. The little figure of the crew went into the prone, and the gun disapeared (turned into an iron cross icon), and my units stopped firing at it. And then the gun went back into action, nailed one of my tanks, and appeared again? WTF is happening here?
6B. In the above case, I had targetted the PAK with a tank, before the tank had a LOS. I then gave the tank a move order, to take him out of defilade to nail the 'hopefully' suppressed PAK. The tank promptly disregarded my targetting order and started shooting at an infantry squad that was nearby. This was AFTER the tank had LOS to the gun. And the gun then nailed the tank. WTF is happening here?
Those are a few, I'm sure I'll have more.
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GJK?Originally posted by Michael Dorosh:Check GJK's websites, there are a few up there.
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I have been trying to get some pictures of the SL and ASL maps to make some CM scenarios based on SL and ASL scenarios. I've dl'd that ASL program, but thus far I haven't been able to get the maps to display. I hate that java program. It doesn't really install, but rather it sort of runs in the background. So all these subfolders the instructions refer to don't even show up. I guess I just don't understand the program.
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This is certainly a complicated topic, and I don't have time to read through the whole string here. But I will throw in my $.02 here, just as my fiance claims I always do. I think the broad front approach may have been the best bet, with some of the pincer action to trap huge numbers of soldiers and equipment. But I think they pushed just a little too far in '41. They should have saved Moscow for the Spring of 42. And there is still a huge argument going on in regards to the winter '41 'stand fast' order of Hitler. Some historians claim he probably saved the army with the order. Others claim a limited retreat to defensible terrain and a 'tidying up' of the lines would have saved a lot of men and material.
But there are a number of other factors that would have helped. Proper winter equipment would have saved probably several hundred thousand German soldiers. Decent treatment of the Ukrainians, who originally welcomed the Germans as liberators, would have helped to free up the LOCs from partison attack, and possibly brought several hundred thousand loyal soldiers into their cause. The shifting of forces from western Europe a bit faster, those that were poised for Sealion, would have helped a great deal. Somewhere in the neighborhood of 500,000 German troops plus alot of equipment was lost in their half-hearted attempt in N. Africa. And the focusing of the military complex on actual current technology rather than on wonder weapons would have helped a great deal also. Add all of these factor together and you have another 1,000,000 well-trained soldiers and several thousand tanks by the spring of 43., and incrementally, all the way to the beginning of Barbarossa. IMHO, Russia is fighting out of the Urals in late '42 or early '43, and Japan is rolling in the backdoor.
Or, keep a tighter rein on Mussolini so he doesn't go into Greece, Barbarossa take place a month or more earlier, Moscow falls in '41, and Russia sues for a temporary peace. Rommel gets beefed up, tosses the Brits out of Egypt, and keeps rolling, shutting the backdoor for lend lease through Iran. And then Russia and Germany go at it again, this time for keeps, but Germany starts in a much improved situation. But then we can debate whether lend lease really helped keep Russia in the war.
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Well, I got back to 200 today, I had saved it on turn 2. I found the AT gun. It nailed my left and my center T-34, one after the other. I do really hate scenarios that start with concealed AT guns in LOS and killing range of the tanks in my set-up area. None of my tanks had moved. I have no idea why the AT gun waited until turn 3 to open fire. Theoretically, you can could lose the 2 tanks w/o even having a chance to move them.Where do the T-34s need to be? Not way forward. They want LOS, and don't want to aim at reverse slopes (grazing LOS will get many long "overs" while shorts will hit the slope in front). You only need LOS to what you plan to blow up. Low ground is safest otherwise. It limits LOS from enemy ATGs. It means if they do get a shot, it is likely to be hull down, a smaller target. And that may also make it possible to break LOS with a short reverse. You only have to move them up to get LOS to some new spot, and one at a time, not the whole map.You will probably lose a T-34 and maybe 2 at some point, finding the enemy gun. You want to keep it to 1, and *you want to have already tossed most of the HE from the tanks you do lose*. Get your licks in.
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P.S. CMBB is my recent purchase, only a couple of days old. I have had CMBO for a couple of years, and CMAK for at least a year. But before last week I hadn't played any of them for around a year. Yeah, I am used to controlling US arty, not Russian.Originally posted by Pirx:Looks like you snatched victory from the jaws of defeat! Comrade Stalin will probably overlook the heavy casualties...
With a 1941 conscript spotter, you are stuck with pre-planned bombardments only. For kicks, I checked what the spotter response time would be. It was 23 minutes! Because you can't adjust the pre-planned bombardment, there is no way to "walk" the barrage ahead of your advance. If you want more flexible artillery plans, buy CMAK and play as the Americans. You can't do it with Russians.
You might want to try putting your overwatch heavy weapons (ie mortar and HMGs) in cover in places with a wide field of view and leave them there, blasting away, without moving them. Moving them prevents them from firing and also attracts enemy fire. If they can spot the enemy, they can put firepower on him, even from 100s of meters away. Only move them if the line of sight to the enemy is lost, not to get closer if the enemy is already in view.
If your mortar is in some woods or trees >200 m from the enemy, it is unlikely to be spotted if it doesnt move, even if it is firing. If the mortar doesnt attract enemy fire, it doesnt need an HQ to keep up morale and will happily fire away. Another option is to keep the mortar out of sight of the target and use an HQ unit to spot for it. MGs, however, will get spotted while firing, therefore inviting return fire, so it is nice to keep them in command to prevent them from breaking.
That's my advice. On the other hand, I did worse than you on my first try at 112, so take it with a grain of salt! My mistake was advancing a full strength platoon up the left flank with inadequate recon. I got ambushed in the open by the German platoon hiding in the woods and lost my whole platoon. I had already dropped my artillery in the center area around the flag and inflicted some friendly fire due to poor timing. Major defeat was the result. On my second attempt, I got the timing right and advanced both platoons up the middle toward the flag, then swung left and took out the German platoon. On the second try I had a major victory 94%-6%.
Now I'm a turn into 200. What a weird assortment of units.
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jasonc,
I didn't notice the total numbers, I was looking at units. Yes, I guess the Russian units are bigger than the German units. When I mentioned the lack of a 2-1 ratio, I was thinking of 2 platoons versus 1 platoon, and 2 MG sections versus 2 MG sections. So yes, I had a 3-1 ratio in troops, but still inferior troops. I'd almost rather have a platoon of regulars than 2 platoons of green guys. Well maybe.
I had assumed the purpose of the spotter was for the prep fire. And I was wrong to fire an 'open sheaf'. But there is no mention of the sizes of the sheafs in the manual, so this was how I found out about it. And I am a bit more used to CMBO and CMAK. Now I know. And I hadn't read the part about not being ale to adjust pre-planned fire until after I had done it. So, yes, another learning point. Your points are well taken. My purpose was just to get the arty mission in, and then play with it as the enemy showed up. Obviously in CMBB you can't do that.
In regards to the mortar, I was just trying to keep him up with the troops. I knew I wasn't going to have anything but sound contacts for the first third of the game (or I assumed as much), and I'm not going to expend my limited HE ammo on them. So 6 of one, half dozen of another. The mortar was panic'd by the first burst from an mg over 1000 meters away. And he stayed that way for several turns. And if he can see the target, the target can see him. But in regards to expending all of my ammo on one target; guilty. I should have spread things out. But I will point out that 29 rounds of HE on one target resulted in....., nothing. Not a casualty, and not a pin. Nothing. And that's in trees where I should be able to get at least a couple of air bursts. That German squad, despite the mortar and despite taking fire, from at times, 2 almost full strength squads, modified by a +1 leader, didn't even get pinned the entire game. Just Murphy I guess.
In regards to the company commander, it's sort of a tough decision. I understand the concept of the longer command range. But it's a strange collection of leaders in this scenario. I have these two platoon leaders with great combat modifiers, almost like 7-2 leaders. Or I have this other guy, who is essentially a 7-0, but he has some reach. I know it's sort of a learning point, and that's the purpose, but shouldn't 2 platoon commanders with these great leadership modifiers be more than green? The same with the company commander.
And I never really needed the extra command range. Most of the squads that broke were within the command range of the company commander. And he was the only one of my commanders who actually broke. Shoot, one of my leaders was down to 1 man, virtually surrounded by the enemy, and he never broke. If I had to do it again I would have kept him a little closer to the middle. And he would have helped with the mortar. But, again, here's a mortar broken by one burst from an MG over 1000 meters away.
And that's another game system question. If the company commander breaks, are the negative affects of this breaking on other units increased by his extra command range? I mean, since he can affect units further away, due to his extra command range, does this mean his negative affects also go further than a leader w/o this extra command range?
And, does a leader utilize his own modifyers on his own actions? Does the leader with the morale bonus also use this modifier for his own morale checks? I just have so many questions and the manual is really missing a lot of info.
Oh, how come, if given the choice, the German MGs ALWAYS fire at MGs, FOs, and mortars, even when they are hundreds of meters away, and cannot possibly tell what type of unit it is?
But your points are well taken. And I have learned a lot. And I'm sure I would do much better if I tried it again. I appreciate you taking the time to put these together. I've learned a lot from these scenarios.
P.S. Oh, like in 110, do any more of the units need to be reoriented or anything in any of the other scenarios?
[ January 24, 2006, 06:08 AM: Message edited by: civdiv ]
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Yeah, I was moving the mortar and he got nailed from like a 1000 meters by the distant MG-42. He didn't take any casualties but that took him out of the fight for a while. I only took the 3 casualties from my own arty, but it ended up being 12 as the squad promptly ran off the map. But the wide sheaf was a mistake. If I had concentrated it on the hex I had targetted, it SHOULD have cleared out the flank.Originally posted by Pirx:Thanks I love AARs like this. I got hammered the first time I played this one, then won on the second try with only 5 casualties! It's amazing how some simple adjustments to an attack plan can lead to widely disparate results.
Are you taking casualties from the MG or from your own artillery? I wouldnt be surprised if you got some friendly fire, especially if you used the 'target wide' command.
I am surprised your mortar got spotted and pinned. Are you moving him? I had better success leaving him hidden in the trees where he had a view of all three potential enemy strongposts.
Good luck!
Hmm, what did I learn?
Keeping the spotter, who is a conscript, from pre-planning fires is a real dilemna. I'd like to have more flexibility, but the guy is a real wuss. I mean, he stayed broken THE ENTIRE battle, and he took like one long range burst from the distant MG-42 on like the 4th turn of the game. Luckily I had the pre-planned fires, otherwise I wouldn't have had anything at all.
If I had to do it again, I would concentrate everything either in the middle or on the left. There is no point in going right as you end up having to deal with the distant MG-42. But rather than spreading out, I'd concentrate everything in one spot. These green troops are just too brittle. If you spread them out, you WILL end up losing a squad or two, and then you don't have enough left in the platoon to achieve sufficient suppression to move forward.
Keep the mortar team close, and in command. He broke right in the beginning and he wasn't of much use. If I had kept him near a leader, he might have been more responsive.
But all-in-all, not knowing the enemy strength, not having a sufficient advantage in numbers (not even a 2-1 ratio, when 3-1 is desired against a dug-in opponent), and facing vastly superior quality troops, I feel very satisfied at having eaked out a victory.
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TURN 20
Turn 20; WOW!!!! One squad advanced close enough to the flag to grab control on the LAST TURN to grab a minor victory. I guess the fact that I had attritted the MG-42 by 2 men, and then it was panicked, was enough for my squad to exert enough control to grab the flag. Talk about a close victory.
End of game; As you can see, I took about 3 times more casualties. But that’s the nature of the East Front. The Russians take a bunch of casualties, but gain ground. And I learned a lot. I’m pretty sure I could get at least a moderate victory with what I have learned. And if this thing had gone 25 turns, I might have been routed off the field of battle.
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TURN NINE
Turn 9; Well, following Russian military tradition, a short round landed literally a couple of feet from one of my squads, inflicting 3 casualties and sending them into a rout. Yes, it was a wide sheaf, but it landed over 120 meters from the aim point. This is the squad at the far left edge of the map. Hopefully they won’t rout off the map, and *maybe* I can get them back under control. Now that 4 German units are positively id’d, three squads on the left plus the MG-42 in the trench, I suddenly find myself outnumbered on the left flank. The 1 squad that I shifted from the left to the middle, I am attempting to shift back to the left, to bring that platoon up to 3 squads. My mortar team should finally go into action now, and hopefully they can get some tree bursts on the German squad on the far left. One MG section will try and suppress the German squad in the small building on the far left, while the other targets the MG-42 in the trench. I also have the last 6 rounds of my arty coming in on the far left, so maybe they will do some damage to the enemy, and not anymore to me. This will be a key turn; either I will suppress the German infantry platoon on the left and continue to push forward, or my platoon there will be broken and fleeing by next turn. The middle platoon continues to push towards the trench. All-in-all things are alright. I have the one routed unit on the left, and a panic’d unit near the scattered trees in the middle on the right. My company commander is within spitting distance, so maybe they will get back in the fight.
TURN TEN
Turn 10; Well, I’m down one squad as the squad on the left that was hit by my own arty has routed off the map. Now I may be in trouble. The last arty barrage landed no where near the enemy, so it’s a toe-to-toe fight on the left. I’m taking a risk and not even targetting the German squad in the woods at 1-o’clock from the small building on the left. It looks like the German squad in the building is pretty suppressed, so I may be able to push a squad into there in a couple of turns. And the mortar continues to suppress the German squad on the far left, in the trees. The key may end up just pinning the German’s on the left, and continuing to push the right flank into the trench. I have a whole platoon, plus an MG section raking the trench, and a couple of squads are getting close. If I can break the German MG and take the trench, I should be able to pile on the German infantry platoon on the left, and take the victory.
TURN ELEVEN
Turn 11; Well, now my MG on the far right has jammed, and the 2 German mgs really tore up my squad on the right. All are pinned, shaken, and in one case, broken. They are just going to have to get calmed down, and the two leaders on that side are in close proximity, so hopefully they will get back in the fight soon. One thing I did add after this screenshot was taken, is with my mg out of action, I am going to move them up to the scattered trees. On the left we have broken the squad in the building, so I will continue to hammer the squad on the left with mortar fire, and small arms against the squad behind the building. Right now I can’t afford to spare units to fire on the broken squad. The lone squad that I have been switching back and forth between the platoons is now broken. The MG-42 in the trench took advantage of the let-up in fire from my MG section (due to it jamming), and raked them last turn.
TURN TWELVE
Turn 12; I zoomed in a bit as my units are getting a bit closer together. The move line shown in the lower righthand corner is my jammed MG section moving up. I know, they can’t clear the jam while moving, but time to move them in to be a bit more effective. The white line coming from the left side is the smoke command for my mortar section. I need to screen the German MG-42 in the trench to get some relief for my shaken and panicking platoon. And I’ve shifted the fire from my second MG section in the forefront of the picture, in the light building, to target the infantry squad in the woods. One platoon on the far left is almost to the light building. The other is still providing covering fire, and trying to get their themselves. The battle still remains balanced on a pinhead.
TURN THIRTEEN
Turn 13; Ok, things are not going well. Another squad on the left was broken from a burst from the infantry in the squad, and routed back and forth for the majority of the turn, taking casualties every time they were fired at. They would run in one direction, take a casualty, and run in another direction, and take another, etc. They ran back and forth at least 4 times. So they are down to 5 men, and probably out of the fight. My mortar section disobeyed orders, and refused to drop smoke. Someone might say that they are out of command, so what do I expect? Well, they were broken on about turn 4 by a burst of MG fire from like 1000 meters away, w/o taking a casualty. At the time they were in command. They then stayed broken for at least 5 more turns. I simply couldn’t leave a leader behind to tend to them. My mg on the far right is still jammed. I now have 2 squads in the craters near the trench at the flag. Hopefully they will start to lay down some effective fire and suppress that MG-42. It has seemed impervious to everything I could throw at it. Hopefully the 2 squads in the craters can suppress it sufficient to get my other 2 squads up close, and I can take the flag before time runs out.
TURN FOURTEEN
Turn 14; Well, my advance on the left has fallen apart. First I had the 1 squad rout off the map after a friendly artillery round landed over 120 meters from the aim point. But then Murphy says; ‘Friendly fire isn’t friendly’. And Murphy is always in your OOB. Now another routed squad has fled off the map. So I’m down to one squad with 9 men, and my leader is down to 1 man. I do have their 3rd squad back in the area, but they are shaken right now. One German squad (The one on the far left in the trees), has shrugged off a 30 round arty barrage plus all of the HE from my mortar section. They continue to riddle the remnants of my platoon. Now that my mortar section is out of HE maybe they will follow orders and dump some smoke to shield my platoon going after the flag. My second MG section is back in action and targeting the MG-42 in the trench. One squad took a burst from the distant MG-42, and they are busy running away. I think my force morale is down to around 70%. Maybe, just maybe, I can keep the MG-42s head down in the trench, and with some cover from the smoke, get into the trench and take the flag. Maybe.
TURN FIFTEEN
Turn 15; Well, this one is going down the tubes. My squad on the left is down to 6 men and panic’d. The German squad in the trees just refuses to let up, despite hundreds of pounds of HE and god knows how much small arms fire. And the smoke and small arms fire has done little to calm the fire from the 2 German MG-42s. One squad (shown by the lack line at the bottom right) is broken. They haven’t taken a casualty, but they have run like rabbits. Another squad, right next to my leader, in the middle of the screen, is likewise broken. And the 2 squads in the craters refuse to respond to the efforts of the company commander, who is only a few meters away. My MGs continue to fire, to little affect. And another German squad has popped up on the left. I know I’ve made some mistakes. But considering I have less than a 2-1 advantage in numbers, and whose troop quality is significantly better than mine, and I’m advancing over open ground against a dug-in opponent, this is a tough little battle. The arty FO and the mortar section is a major force multiplier, but it is more than negated by the German MG-42s, versus my MG sections. Well, we’ll see what happens here. 5 minutes left, and still a chance.
TURN SIXTEEN
Turn 16; Still pushing in the center. I still have a broken squad off the picture to the lower right. And it still has 12 men!! Another broken squad is in the middle of the picture. They broke right next to my leader, and then refused to rally over the last 2 turns. My mortar unit, off the picture to the left is firing their last round, and HE. One squad on the right is trying to get to one of the closer craters. Not much more to do other than let this thing play out.
AT THIS POINT I AM JUST GOING TO LET IT RUN. THER IS NOT MUCH TACTICAL SUBTLETY LEFT.
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So which format works better; putting the image right in the msg or just posting the thumbnail link? Maybe this is a better question for the moderator's; which method would you prefer?
Again, I am assembling a Powerpoint document of this AAR if anyone is interested. And, again, I can format it so it's a self-extreacting slide show so you don't need Powerpoint to view.
And yes, I know. I've alreayd made some mistakes. Especially with the arty spotter.
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Ok, here's my attempt at an AAR for The Russian Training Scenario 112.
TURN ONE
Turn 1; A slightly non-traditional set-up. Going from left to right, I have the Infantry platoon that started set-up on the left. I’ve attached the mortar section and the arty FO to them. They will push for the left flank, and try to roll up the flag from the left. I expect to ‘stonk’ the German positions that I expect to encounter with artillery once the FO is in the woods at the limits of the shown movement. In the middle I took a away 2 of the squads from the second platoon, and then reinforced them with a MG section. This group will try and get into the building and the scattered trees, and begin to do rushes to get closer to the flag. The MG with lay suppressive fire. The other 2 squads went to the company commander at the extreme right. He also gets the last MG section. They will push up from the two buildings, towards the flag, with the MG supplying suppressing fire.
TURN THREE
Turn 3; Ok, one issue has reared it’s head, and it’s due to my not understanding all of the rules. The arty FO is not only out of command, he isn’t even tracing a command line to anyone. It sort of looks like he isn’t even in the company, so he’s going to be trouble, especially as he is a conscript. I assume it’s a scenario design thing, were he only represents the prep bombardment. I may have really screwed myself. I plotted the left side of the battlefield anticipating hitting resistance there, but I had also planned on moving the arty once enemy units started popping up. It looks like I won’t have the option of changing the arty location. I’ve only started this scenario once or twice, and I’ve never played this far, so I’m not sure where the enemy will pop up. I had hoped to ‘spring the door’ on the left with the artillery, and then shifting it near the flag.
TURN FOUR
Turn 4; Ok, I took fire and I have no idea from where. I assume it’s somewhere on the right as my mg section, straggling a bit in the middle, was pinned. I heard the firing of an MG-42, but I didn’t see any tracers, nor did I take any casualties. My arty FO continues to bemuse me. He is highlighted and he is now routing. I’m really thinking he is in the game just for the prep bombardment. So I guess I will get 5 salvos of arty in 2 turns around the house. It’s a wide pattern, so hopefully it will crack the door on the left side, and then I can roll up the flag from 2 sides. But this is not going the way I had hoped. My left most squad got slightly out of command range, so he has to advance to contact rather than advance, as I have most of the other squads doing. My mortar section is going to start dropping smoke as soon as we start taking fire from around the flag. I’m thinking there is still an MG-42 there, as there was in the two previous scenarios. He will also serve to blind the other distant MG, if it is still where it was for the last scenario. I really have no idea what sort of force I am facing. If it’s much more than an infantry platoon with 2 MG-42s, than I am in trouble. One tank, or even a halftrack, and everything would be fine. This is the first scenario I have even wished for a bren gun carrier.
TURN FIVE
Turn 5; Well, the best thing I can say is no casualties…., yet. Three enemy units have popped up. Yes, the 2 MG-42s appear to be in the same two locations they were in the last scenario. There is also what appears to be an infantry squad near where the artillery will go I next turn. All are sound contacts, so who knows where they really are. The squad on the left all have covered arcs set on the small building and the surrounding woods. They are all advancing, except for 1 squad that is like 7.4 inches out of command range. My arty FO is broken, but the artillery is still going in. My mortar is pinned, which really screws up my plan, as I would love to screen my right flank with smoke, to keep the distant MG-42 from chewing me to pieces. I have area fire set for my left-most squads on the small building, and on my right most squad and one mg section on the trench. My other MG is still trying to get to the house in the center of the picture. I’m taking a calculated risk as two of my leaders are running this turn to get closer to their squads. Hopefully in a minute or so more inviting targets for the MGs will present themselves, so my mortar can finally get into position on the left, and start spewing smoke and/or suppression on the mgs.
TURN SIX
Turn 6; Well, the first casualties. The squad to the right of center took 2 casualties last turn. That’s it so far. The arty will go in in 3 seconds, just beyond the small house on the far left. My mortar is still pinned, He’s the guy with no movement orders just above the selected units name in the info box. I could REALLY use him right now. The MG-42 that has now disappeared, but that is near the fence, next to the scattered trees, at the top right of the picture has been almost exclusively shooting at the mortar team. Hopefully this turn the arty will suppress the heck out of the enemy on the left, and allow my platoon there to get into the woods, and come in behind the flag. I’m a little worried about the artillery since I requested a ‘wide sheaf’. My lead squad on the left is still about 100 meters from the center of the impacts, so we’ll see. Oh, my second MG section, the unit with the ‘move’ command in the middle of the picture, is under control again. Hopefully next turn he can start to either suppress the MG at the flag, or start dueling the long range MG.
TURN SEVEN
Turn 7; My artillery is churning up the left, and fire has dropped to almost nothing. I have to be careful for another turn and a half as the arty will continue to hit the area. My platoon is going to creep up as close as possible. Still just the 2 casualties from a turn or so ago. My mortar remains pinned, which is really getting to be a pain. But, all together, I think things are going well. But I really haven’t seen the enemy strength yet. I figure there has got to be an infantry platoon out there, probably on my left. And I would have assumed I would have taken indirect fire by now, if they had a mortar.
TURN EIGHT
Turn 8; I took 2 more casualties in 2 different squads. The highlighted unit is my one broken unit. I have a couple pinned. The artillery continues to go in on my left, and I have 2 sounds contacts there. I still have no solid contacts yet, which is a pain. My mortar is finally pinned such that he is taking orders, so he will begin suppressing the trench near the flag, once he gets set-up. I slid one squad from the platoon on the left to the right. The platoon leader in the center will pick him up this turn (hopefully). My 2 mg section are now in business and busy suppressing the trench. Assuming my platoon on the left can clear out those woods, in conjunction with the artillery (which will continue to impact for another turn), we should be in good shape to roll up the flag from the front and the rear.
[ January 23, 2006, 01:39 PM: Message edited by: civdiv ]
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Yeah, but the AirFarce does their pushups via correspondence course.Hey! That's an Air Force thing. Getting caught with your hands in your pockets is worth alot of push-ups.
As my old regimental commander used to say; 'I don't have a problem with pilots getting flight pay. It's their basic pay I have a problem with.'
Oh, BF.com, I meant CM: Campaigns.
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I keep an encrypted list of all of my passwords on a jump drive, plus a back-up on a CD-RW. So, because of my organization I win a free copy of CM-Operations, right?BTW, I'm giving civdiv an award for most amount of time not posting and still remembering his login info! I tip my "cover" to you
Steve
So, by using 'cover' I assume you are either a former Marine, or you hung around with them. If you were any other service you'ld call it a hat.
P.S. What do they call pockets in the Army?
Hand-warmers.
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Combat, is to a great extent, influenced by luck. You have to put yourself in the right position, by proper planning, training, etc, to take advantage of the luck. But luck does play a large role in combat, regardless of whether it's WWII or modern day combat. It's one guy in the MG team keeping his head up, or looking at his boots because an ant bit him. Or one guy looking to his right because he is adjusting his chin strap, and so he picks up a unit that until now hadn't been sighted. But to an extent you serve to make your luck. With these brittle, green squads, it can come down to one burst of fire. If the MG opens up at 200+ yards, it still has a chance to nail a guy or two. If it does, that squad is most likely going to break and rout, and then the whole scenario changes. Now he only has three squads to fire on, so each squad is going to get 33% of the MG's attention, as opposed to 25%.Originally posted by Sivodsi:Excellent work with the AAR. I wonder if you have played the same scenario using the same techniques after winning it. I won on my fourth try or so and was really chuffed. I was so confident I'd cracked it that I tried it 3X after that, and failed each time.
But as I said, you either make your luck, or put yourself in the best possible situation to take advantage of good fortune. The difference between the two tries I made and lost, and the last, successful try, was fairly small. In one try I took the early casualty, and a squad was out of the fight. In both fo my first two tries I had situations where I had squads get close, break, and then rout, only to be engaged again. I watched as they routed to the craters close to the MG position, and then take a subsequent burst that caused them to fail another morale check, and begin to rout again. SO they were in cover, in close proximity to my leader, and they failed another morale check, and they were running again in the open. ANd then they just got chewed up. They ran in one direction, took another casualty, and then began to run in another direction. ANd they were just chewed to pieces.
If they get to the crater, broken or otherwise, and don't fail the morale check, the leader might be able to rally them, and then they are in a good position to deliver well-aimed fire at the MG.
But with small forces, as brittle as they are, and given the time constraints, this scenario is a game of inches. You have to push the advance because of the lack of time. If you are fighting a battalion level scenario, you only have to win the MAJORITY of the platoon fights. Assuming you are fighting '2 up, 1 back', you are fighting 6-8 platoon engagements. If you win 4-6 of them, you are doing well. Now you have additional platoons to push into the mini-battles you didn't win. Warfare is putting your strength against the enemy weakness and/or vulnerability. When its 4 squads against 1 mg, in semi-opne terrain, there is little room for finesse. So you lose that squad early, you just lost a quarter of your force to a single die roll. And combat really is about the die rolls. But you are just trying to take advantage of your abilities to force the enemy to roll snake eyes. If you aren't doing your job then the enemy only needs to roll a seven. In real life, or in this game, there isn't much you can do if your enemy keeps rolling snake eyes.
Snake eyes is when some lone rifleman flinches because hot brass flies into his collar, and his resulting, 'eyes closed' shot from his rifle drills your best squad leader between the running lights.
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I'm certainly not an expert, but I'll try and answer. They were basically the Russian version of the Gestapo. Commissars were the ideological 'stiffeners' in the Red Army. They were there to oversee the local Russian commanders, and to serve to indoctrinate the soldiers. They made sure the Russian commanders obeyed their orders, and they made sure the soldiers pressed the attack.Originally posted by Krautman:(A search for "Commissar" had far too many hits; the term is mentioned often, but rarely defined, and there's even a forum member of that name...)
What exactly were they? How were they trained? Was "Commissar" a rank class of its own, or did the Commissars have the military ranks like Lieutenant, Captain etc.? Did they have to answer to a higher central authority or were they part of the normal military chain of command?
Greetings & thanks in advance
Krautman
They did possess ranks, though they were generally considered to be equivelent, if not superior to, the rank of the local commander. If a Russian regiment was led by a LtCol, the commissar might be a Maj. But in most cases, regardless of the seniority of the commander, the commissar was considered to be just as much in charge.
Between battles the commissars conducted classes in an attempt to indoctrinate the troops into the tenets of communism, and to instill a hatred of the enemy. From what I have read, most of this was pretty ineffective. The commissars also made sure either the unit, or the sub-units didn't withdraw w/o orders. They also made sure the soldiers pressed the attack. They did so at gun point. Very often the commissars were backed up by NKVD troops, who would literally machine gun anything who didn't advance, or if anyone tried to retreat.
Some commiissars were cowards, and stayed to the rear. Some were pretty brave and accompanied the leading edge of the attack. Most accounts I have read indicate the former were the most common.
In terms of authority within the units, the commissars were on par with the commanders.
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I didn't mess with the German setup at all, I simply played it right out of the box. I'm not sure how changing the orientation would matter much. But then this scenario is a close run thing, so breaking even one squad early would then concentrate the German fire power that much more, so it might be a factor. I did read the mg was setup the wrong way before I played the scenario, but I just assumed that since I had just dl'd the scenario a couple of days ago, it had been fixed, if that was the designer's intent.Originally posted by Cuirassier:Nice AAR.
Just wondering, was this scenario played with the MG-42 reoriented?
I find your approach interesting. Two of your squads were not in command for a fair amount of time, and you used run instead of advance for your bounds.
Also, I notice the utilization of LOS blocks from the beginning. I'm a bit skeptical of your tactics however because in normal scenarios, the exact locatio of the shooter won't be known, and out of command green squads not behind an LOS block will be cut to ribbons.
Anyway, thanks for the AAR. It appears you have had more success than the lot of us. Congratulations.
By the way, it would great if you did a similar AAR and posted it for scenario 111 and 112, as people, myself being one of them, are interested in how one might fare with the MG positioned right. I have taken a short hiatus from the training scenarios, playing actuall games verse AI and PBEM instead. I will return to them shortly however.
In regards to using the LOS blocks, it's simply a product of the short nature of the scenario. I won it on turn 18 out of 20, so it was still a close thing. But as the objective is only that one flag, you are still going to orient your forces in that direction. So the LOS block is still going to be somewhat effective. And, in the two previous attempts I made at this scenario (I was wrong, this was the third time I had played this scenario) I still had no idea where the mg actually was. I only had sound contacts the previous two times.
In regards to the run commands, given the nature of the terrain (steppe), the green troops, and the fact that as far as I knew I was dealing with a concealed and dug-in automatic weapon, advance isn't going to help you any if you use it instead. The green troops are just going to be firing at shadows, as they can't get a spot until they get close. Plus, though I'm not sure of this, advance is just going to slow them down. But you have a point if the advance command makes them less vulnerable than the run command. But again, due to the open nature of the terrain, I wasn't worried about bumping into the enemy as I moved across the open fields.
In regards to the lack of command due to the lack of proximity to the HQ section, I really don't think it's an issue. The HQ provides no benefit in terms of modifiers to the squads. If the leader had a 'plus' somewhere, I might have concentrated on it a bit more. But in terms of ASL terms, this is a 7-0 leader with a platoon composed of a bunch of 447s, or 336s (I can't remember the values for the second-line Russian squads). Having the leader close provides no advantage, and there is a disadvantage if the leader breaks. And given the lack of time, I felt he was better off backstopping part of the force. If someone breaks and begins to rout, he has one chance to possibly rally someone. He can't backstop all four squads, so I picked the best spot, the area around the fence, which at least provides some marginal cover and concealment.
And I will try this for 112, I nailed 111 on my first try. Well, I didn't really nail it, I won a marginal. I didn't pick up on the conscript 82mm section and they promptly broke w/ the first burst of fire, wandered around for a while, became exhausted, and routed into a building. They were half in the building, and it took me a while to figure out why they weren't firing (from being IN the building). So lesson there. Keep them close to the company commander. They would have been great for dropping smoke on the right flank to keep that second mg from hammering my squads going for the objective.
But I will try to do an AAR for 112. I wish CM automatically saved the screen shots in a folder. It's a pain to have to alt-tab out of the game each time and save them into a jpg file.
Maddog, I hope this helps. Maybe not the perfect solution. But 60% of a good plan executed ruthlessly now is better than the 100% solution executed too late.
[ January 22, 2006, 05:39 AM: Message edited by: civdiv ]
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So you probably met LtCol Nussberger then?Unfortunately I did not run across Maj Baker. My team and I spent most of our time during my second tour in Iraq with 1-32 IN, a battalion of the 10th Mtn that was attached to RCT-1 of 1stMarDiv, and then with BLT 1/2, 24th MEU. We operated in the North Babil area and the west and southwest side of Fallujah during the first Fallujah push. My tour was from March 04-Sept 04. [/QB] -
Does anyone know where I can at least see scans of SL and ASL maps, and the map configurations for the scenarios? I'd like to design a scenario around my favorite SL scenario. I can't remember the name, it might be 'The Tractor Works'. I just remember stacks of 447s and 838s. It should be pretty easy to make a CM scenario up.
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Keep in mind that as these pics are on a free hosting site, they will eventually disappear. I'm not sure how long Image Shack keeps the pictures up.
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Ok, looks like the screenshots and such are turning out well. I just want to make sure I don't get into a bad habit and start screwing up the screenshots. So let's keep going here;
TURN TWELVE
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/7857/russiantraining110126cl.jpg
Turn 12 and the squad on the left has been broken by firing from the German mg. But the other three squads are doing well. One is in a crater and he will start laying good point fire on the German mg. Note, because the squad is in the crater and in good order the German mg has been positively located. The HQ section is moving slightly forward to get all three squads in command, and MAYBE to rally a squad that gets pinned or broken in one of the craters.
TURN THIRTEEN
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/3876/russiantraining110134zv.jpg
Turn 13 and the left squad continues to head to cover. The right squad is engaging the German MG, and next turn, with the second squad from the right in another crater, they will begin to engage also. I’m pushing the other squad forward towards another crater to their 10 o’clock.
TURN FIFTEEN
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/427/russiantraining110159of.jpg
Turn 15 and all goes well. The two right most squads are hammering the German MG, and it’s fire has noticeably slackened. And all three squads are in command. The last squad continues its rout. I going to punch the right squad forward to another crater at its 12 o’clock.
TURN SEVENTEEN
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/7184/russiantraining110172qw.jpg
Turn 17 and the German fire is down to almost nothing. The broken squad has rallied itself to get back into the fight, and to claim its share of the booty. The right-most squad is now safe in another crater, and with the squad on its left is pouring in the fire. The left-most squad will be in a crater close to the German trench next turn. And I am moving the HQ section up to the crater vacated by the squad to the north.
TURN EIGHTEEN
http://img506.imageshack.us/img506/6757/russiantraining110189yn.jpg
Turn 18 and we have new employees for the coal mines in Siberia. I took a total of 5 casualties including one KIA. This took me about 4 tries, but it would have taken 20 if not for some tips I picked up here.
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Ok, I just wanted to make sure I was doing the links right and such. Looks good from my end.
TURN SEVEN
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/3688/russiantraining11075us.jpg
Turn 7 and the German MG just opened up. I think they opened fire on the second squad from the left. No casualties yet.
TURN EIGHT
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/1484/russiantraining11088uc.jpg
Turn 8 and more fire now. The squads on the left will dash forward just to this side of the fence. Then I’ll give them a short dash, just to get to the other side of the fence next turn. The squad on the left is shaken.
TURN NINE
http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/6049/russiantraining11096ow.jpg
Turn 9 and the squad on the left is in trouble. He’s pinned right now. The German MG is engaging all of my squads in turn now. The squad on the far right is either pinned or shaken.
TURN TEN
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/3465/russiantraining110109mi.jpg
Turn 10 and still slowly moving forward. The squad on the left is cautious now, but responding to orders again. The two middle squads are shaken, which is why I’m letting them sneak, rather than getting up and dashing. Maybe a turn w/o taking fire will get them settled.
TURN ELEVEN
http://img508.imageshack.us/img508/7355/russiantraining110115kg.jpg
Turn 11 and still taking fire. The squads are almost all shaken or pinned, I can’t quite remember. This is a critical turn as one squad is almost to a crater, from which they should begin to engage the German MG. Still just ‘infantry sounds’ in terms of spotting the enemy. I’m moving the commander a bit to my left so the third squad may get back into command range.
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Ok, I finally completed this scenario on my 4th try. I have this little briefing in ppt format if anyone wants to host it. I could put it into a self-extracting ppt file so people wouldn't even need to have Powerpoint to look at it. Well, here goes, I'm new at this posting of pictures in forums;
TURN ONE
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/9411/russiantraining11011eq.jpg
I start the scenario with the troops well spread out. I want the German MG to have to continually reorient to engage my various squads as they approach.
TURN THREE
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2623/russiantraining11034ld.jpg
This is turn 3 and all is going well. Because of the fence I’m going to move my troops from the right up a little bit more before moving the troops from the left into the open. My HQ section is on the right as these two squads will be a little closer together. Plus I can put the HQ section behind the fence, and MAYBE, as my squads break they will rout in my direction and I may be able to rally them.
TURN FOUR
http://img526.imageshack.us/img526/2015/russiantraining11040wv.jpg
Turn 4 and still no fire yet. The squads on the right have, or are moving into the open. Because of the long order delays, especially for the guys on the left, they will now just start to move into the open.
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Sorry, don't want to smear the many veterne's out there, but in terms of history, I'd pick a lot of units before I picked the 25th. They were a disaster at Guadacanal, and some elements of the 1st Marine Div that had to be sent back ashore after being relieved, to again support the 25th. The 25th couldn't handle a few thousand starving Japanese that were still wandering around the island.
In Korea they were overrun by the initial NK invasion and basically broke and ran.
In Vietnam they were considered one of the poorer units in terms of discipline and drug use. They tended to be ranked down with the 173rd and the 4th ID.
Yes, they can't be blamed for being a poorly led, trained, and equipped unit such as the version of the 25th ID that led off the Korean Conflict, but all units are a product of training and leadership.
But they certainly don't have the lineage of units such as the 1st or 2nd Armored Division, or the 1st Infantry Division. Or the 82nd or 101st. Or 1st or 2d MarDiv.
When I was stationed in Hawaii in the mid to late '90's, I trained with them a lot. And they certainly didn't impress me.
And I spent a tour in Afghanistan with them in 2002-2003 and let's just say they weren't that great.
Questions.....
in Combat Mission: Barbarossa to Berlin
Posted
mrpwase and jasonc, thanks for your detailed, informative, and timely replies. Jason, sorry for all of the SL/ASL comparison, I am just trying to establish a commonality to quantify the information. Both of your answers go a long way to answer my questions and improve my awareness of how this game models combat. And due to the depth of this game (a la, the Close Combat series), the manual only goes so far to explain the modelling concepts. The strategy guide for CMBB will be a help, if I can find a way to uncorrupt the file. D2D just plain sucks.
Again, thanks for your replies.