Wingman tuned down

[Kindred]

Hi all,

I was reading the improvements and it's true that wingmans are receiving less damage card but they still receive alot.

I don't know if it is possible but one way to prevent them to be to strong is to limit the burst rating.

ex. only have 3 burst. they still can play all the damage cards but can't if they got a very very lucky hand play 2 OOS3:4 in the same turn.

Just my 2 cents.

Kindred

[Guest Mike]

I wonder if wingmen should receive hte INVERSE of how many shots the leader has in a given situation?

Eg if a leader is tailing someone, the nthe wingman should get 0 shots at the tailed leader, and maybe only a sghot or 2 at the enemy wingman. After all your wingman's supposed to be well behind his leader right? So how does he shoot from there? Or indeed do anything useful - how does he actually manouvre the combat into more useful situations???? Isn't that the leader's role?

Conversely if the enemy leader is on your butt then your wingman might be in an ideal positoin to have a crack at hime - provided his wingman hasn't shot you down In this situation I can imagine your wingman working hard to come to your rescue - including using manouvres, etc.

[tornado]

To be honest, I can't tell much, if any, difference in the Wingmen with my Medium to High level pilots. It is at the lower levels that I do see the difference in the number of attack cards played by them.

[Jaroen]

Just played a few games with my still starting Japanese pilots and I experienced a lot of aggressive cards in hands of the bot wingman. Out of all the burst cards drawn half of them were OOTS cards. In addition those bot pilots had higher (even double) the value of my own pilots thus increasing there hands with draw extra cards. It wasn't pretty!

It looks like the human wingman do get a more defensive draw but not so for the bots.

Something else about OOTS cards. If used against bot bombers it's almost as if every OOTS shot fired is repulsed by that terrible bomber card which is the equivalent of the OOTS (forgot the precise name). You consider yourself lucky but get pounded almost every time. Again ... the wingman with few cards were chanceless.

Godspeed,

Jaroen.

[Dan Verssen]

Here is how the Wingman deck was adjusted for how many cards there used to be, and how many there are now...

IMS1:1 - 9 -> 7

IMS1:2 - 4 -> 2

IMS2:2 - 6 -> 5

IMS2:3 - 2 -> 1

IMS3:3 - 3 -> 2

IMS2:D - 1 -> 1

OOTS1:2 - 1 -> 1

OOTS2:3 - 1 -> 1

OOTS3:4 - 1 -> 1

Total - 28 -> 21, so a 1/4 reduction

[Strider]

During the first game I played with the update applied, it was a 2 vs 2 bot game. My wingie bot drew shooter cards all 6 turns. The very first turn, he drew 3 and shot down one of the enemy's wingies. About 1/2 way in, he shot down the other, and damaged the two leaders to the point where the last was killed on turn 6. Now he drew at least one shooter card every turn, and during one turn, my wingie drew 3 shooter cards.

I played 10+ more games and this type of situation didn't occur again, but my perception was that the frequency of wingies' shooter cards weren't any different then before the patch.

I still feel that wingies have way too much influence over the game. Like Stalin, I feel that wingies shouldn't even be able to shoot at an enemy leader who is being tailed by your leader, and that an enemy leader who is being advantaged, shouldn't have to deal so much with the wingie. I think the skills that wingies can buy that influence his leader's abilities and the ones that influence the enemy's is ok. I just think their in-game attacks need adjusting. (?????)

At mid and especially high level, my perception is the game is way too lethal on pilots. Meaning, to me, it is too easy to shoot down planes, or be shot down I'd get a lot more satisfaction from shooting down a plane if it was tougher to do. You've made adjustments based on arnaments, so would it be possible to make adjustments on the airframe factors by increasing them?????

[Shatten]

Hey guys, I'm kind of new, only been around for about a week and a half, but I played pretty extensively in that time period before the new patch was released. I wholeheartedly agree with what everyone is saying. I can't vouch for human controlled wingman because i have been playing mostly against the comp in order to level up, but I expect both would have the same drawing probabilities. I have not seen a noticeable change from the 25% reduction in the Wingman Attack Card arsenal. I have played atleast 20 games and the wingman have averaged 2-3 IMS or OOS cards every turn. One game, a Mustang pulled 5/6 Att cards against a bomber and completely wiped it out. The statistics just don't seem to be adding up. I understand that the next patch was supposed to tone down wingmen so they wouldn't leave your leader totally defenseless, but I have seen no change whatsoever and apparently am not the only one. With relatively now difference in Attack cards and upwards of +2 damage on each attack, it allows some planes to be absolutely devasting that no possible drawn could defend against. I hope that you programmers will look into this and maybe think about either toning back the modified damage or further reducing the amount of Attack cards in the wingmen deck. I also like the idea of reinforcing Airframes as possible method of solving this problem. Thanks for the effort.

-Shatten

[Guest Mike]

Originally posted by Dan Verssen:

Here is how the Wingman deck was adjusted for how many cards there used to be, and how many there are now...

IMS1:1 - 9 -> 7

IMS1:2 - 4 -> 2

IMS2:2 - 6 -> 5

IMS2:3 - 2 -> 1

IMS3:3 - 3 -> 2

IMS2:D - 1 -> 1

OOTS1:2 - 1 -> 1

OOTS2:3 - 1 -> 1

OOTS3:4 - 1 -> 1

Total - 28 -> 21, so a 1/4 reduction

Yeah but the big killers are still in there - the odds of the wingman drawing a few 2 and 3 burst cards haven't changed much at all - you've taken out only 3 of them out of 15 (20%) - and 4 out of 13 1 burst cards (31%) - and the number of OOTS's and 2D's hasn't changed at all.

I think you should take out more of the "heavy" cards - the number of cards wasn't the problem really - it was the number of _bursts_ wingies could get - they might draw 6 or 7 or more bursts and get to play them all.

3 or 4 low burst cards can still be bleedin' annoying - even lethal with a damage bonus, but at least the number of bursts played would be reasonable.

Why not ditch all the 2 and 3 burst cards from wingmen totally?

[Jaroen]

Posted by Dan Verssen:

Here is how the Wingman deck was adjusted for how many cards there used to be, and how many there are now...

IMS1:1 - 9 -> 7

IMS1:2 - 4 -> 2

IMS2:2 - 6 -> 5

IMS2:3 - 2 -> 1

IMS3:3 - 3 -> 2

IMS2:D - 1 -> 1

OOTS1:2 - 1 -> 1

OOTS2:3 - 1 -> 1

OOTS3:4 - 1 -> 1

Total - 28 -> 21, so a 1/4 reduction

So if I'm reading this correctly there are fewer burst cards in a total wingman deck but out of those fewer burst cards the number of OOTS cards stayed the same. That means it results in the chance of drawing a OOTS by a (bot) wingman is increased actually! Fewer cards in the total deck but the same amount of OOTS cards. A bit uneven if you'd ask me. Like Stalin's Organist (do Stalin Organs fly very well???) I think a wingman being in a supporting role shouldn't be very strong with high value burst cards available.

So much for my rambling.

Godspeed,

Jaroen.

[Guest Mike]

Stalin's Organs fly exceedingly well, and have a big bang when they land!

I've noticed that wingmen are getting more kills and exp than their leaders when they are flying lwoer level a/c that have 0 bursts and a damage bonus (eg 109E, F) - this is because they get to use all the shooting cards they do get, and the damage bonus offsets the lesser number of shooting cards they draw.

whereas the leaders in these planes often can't get into a shooting position, and if they do it's often only for 1 burst that is evaded.