Guest Mike Posted January 18, 2006 Share Posted January 18, 2006 Did politics or the Luftwaffe defeat the French Air Force in 1940? Makes an interesting read! I was surprised by the performance and numbers available of some of hte French bombers - esp the LeO 451 - over 300 mph & armed with 1 20mm in dorsal position, and 4 rifle-calibre guns? Just as well the Luftwaffe didn't use lots of these!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistura Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Good read Stalins'O. Politics always degrade the military's ability to win. That's why you SHOT the politicians first. Or make them go fight the war. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sixxkiller Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 The politicians fought the Vietnam War.... remember that result? -Ray Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistura Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 That's why I like my first choice. Plus in the 2nd choice I said make them GO fight the war. Not tell the military to become targets, and we can't do this, and we can't do that. The Greatest politician to fight in a war for the U.S. was George Washington. Without him America would of never been. Plus 90% of the politicians today are cowards or outright traitors. It's just how I hear it and see it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted January 21, 2006 Share Posted January 21, 2006 Hey - no politics on the boards!! :mad: :mad: And I thought you guys always elected politico's who HAD been in wars? Or at least had played people who had been in wars......or had played fictional characters that fought a lot! :cool: :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mistura Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 Politics! What Politics! I just want to shot the Politicians DOWN IN FLAMES! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raxulus Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 French air force shot more than 1000 German Planes during Battle of France. The Dewoitine 520 was a better fighter plane than the ME 109, and there was a lot wainting pilots in stock in the south of the France. But as you said Politicians................... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Horatius Posted January 22, 2006 Share Posted January 22, 2006 The Dewoitine 520 was better then the Me 109E ? That is the first time i heard that, why would it have been better? And for politicians.....simply become a politician yourself, then you can do a better job Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raxulus Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 Yes You That's true You just have to read some related tales from pilots of the French Air Force and also some of the the Luftwaffe to realise that. Even later during Syria 's campaign against RAF Vichy's air force had the apportunity to shot down lots of Hurricanes Spifires and Wildcat with the DE520. Of course the plane is not the only one factor. Better pilots made the differnce too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Mike Posted January 23, 2006 Share Posted January 23, 2006 The 520 was a superb a/c by all accounts - the Germans refused to let the Vichy French have any on mainland France, and only allowed them to start building it again after the 1090 came out. Speed is not quite actually everythign in a/c despite what you may have read. Given similar speeds there are many other factors that are important - firepower, durability, range, protection, and ease of handling and manouvreabilty. Many a/c had very heavy controls at high speeds - so were tiring and unmanouvreable. Full power was usually only used to catch or flee from enemy, and most a/forces limited it to 5 minutes max or else you ran a significant risk of blowing up your engine!!! So much fighting occured at slightly lower-than-full power. the 109E was apparently hard work at high speed -you couldn't use full deflection of control surfaces and they were hard to move. The D520 was slower than the 109E by about 20mph IIRC, but that's only at full boost for both a/c - the 520 had much lighter controls and was a delight to fly (so I've read!!). it was much more manouvreable both at moderate and high speeds, and was founf to be a handful vs allied a/c at torch, Syria and Madagascar including F4F/Martlets, Seafire II's and Sea Hurricanes at torch - losses were 19 Dewoitines and seven Martin bombers from Aeronaval, and the Armistice Air Force lost 16 D.520s and Hawks. Allied air forces lost 44 aircraft during these clashes. When vichy was over-run the Germans seized over 400 Derwotines - 2 fighter training units weer issued with them and htey were highly praised for their manouvreabilty - but accidents were common due to the unfamiliarity with the a/c. 120 were transfered to Bulgaria and 60 to Italy and all these served until the end of the war. A Free French fighter group was formed with 520's afte the invasion of France and it escorted bombers and conducted ground attacks until replaced by Spitfire Vb's in March 1945. Al this was on a 910 hp engine - there had been plans to fit a 1200 hp engine before the conquest of France - might've been interesting!! I can't class the 520 as "superior" to the 109E personally, but it would seem to be at least comparable and I wouldn't rule it out as being better. It was faster than the Hurricane, possibly more manouvreable than the Spitfire, easy to fly and had a good armament for the time (4 x 7.7mm mgs and 1 20mm cannon). It had no apparent reliability problems, wasn't fragile or hard to maintain and was able to fulfil secondary front-line roles right up to the end of the war - that's not a bad record!! It soldiered on in training roles in France until 1953 - unmodified. I wonder what the 1200 hp version would have been like?? :cool: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts