SC2 Large Airborne Operations? 1941 SeaLion instead of Mercury.

[JerseyJohn]

In the Thread on a possible global situation with the UK falling to Germany posted both here and at the Wargames and History Website, we discussed the chances of Germany being able to successfully invade the British Isles in 1940, which is generally regarded as not being feasible. I've found an interesting article on it to open a discusion about airborn ops in SC2 and the historical backdrop.

"... Why Sealion is not an option for Hitler to win the war

One of the more common suggestions that crop up at all-too regular intervals goes along the lines of: "If Hitler hadn't switched from bombing airfields to bombing cities, then Operation Sealion would have worked."

Unfortunately for these suggestions, the plan for Sealion was perhaps the most flawed plan in the history of modern warfare. Getting it to a workable state requires so many changes that an author's artistic license would be revoked..."

-- From the Article. < Operation Sealion >

[JerseyJohn]

Taken from my post in the What if UK Falls in 1940 Thread (at Wargames and History Website) ...

UK Falls in 1941

Germany made no plans for it's invasion till the time for carrying it out was already past! They had no landing craft, only hastily converted barges. No invasion tactics, nothing like a marine force -- in Norway they'd only had to pull up to the docks and offload. And, of course, the Royal Navy and RAF also had to be dealt with.

If Germany had given any thought to invading the UK -- and the time for doing that would have been before the war had begun -- they'd have had a many times larger paratroop arm.

They'd,have needed to secure air supremecy over the English Channel and coastal ports. Next there'd have been a large airborne operation to seize at least one key port -- Dover or one of the neighboring harbors -- along with reliable airstrips so they could quicly fly in reinforcements. When the bridgehead was sufficiently enlarged and air supremecy established, additional troops and heavy equipment would have been brought in by freightors captured in the French ports.

I think that would have worked, but in mid-1940 Germany didn't have nearly enough paratroopers so such an operation was out of the question. They'd have needed a force comparable to what they'd used to take Crete the following year (Operation Mercury).

Crete, 1941

The following link is to a very good article on the 1941 Battle for Crete, Operation Mercury. It should be noted that the Royal Navy was out in force and successfully intercepted troop transports, but in the end air supremacy triumphed over naval dominance.

< Operation Mercury -- Very Detailed Article >

An additional article on the same subject, also very good.

< Crete sometimes guts is not enough ... >

Paratroop Pioneer, Germany General Kurt Student and the British Commander at Crete, Major General Bernard Freyberg.

[Edwin P.]

Many thanks for the background information. Most interesting and informative.

In SC2 terms, such an invasion would have been possible if the UK had followed the strategy of some allied players and sent all of their resources and troops to Egypt thus leaving England undefended. In SC2, perhaps the improved AXIS AI will consider invading and conquering an undefended England if they are not otherwise engaged in preparing for an invasion of the Soviet Union.

[JerseyJohn]

My pleasure, Edwin.

But the thing is, Crete was well defended! What I'm wondering about is whether in SC2 a large paratroop operation, coupled with air supremecy, would be able to overcome ground defenders.

Looking back we tend to think of WWII airborne operations by the failure of Market Garden, which came close to succeeding despite terrible leadership at the highest levels. What we forget is all the successful applications of paratroopers such as the Low Countries 1940 by Germany, Crete 1941 also by Germany, Operation Torch 1942, by the Allies and again at the Sicily and Normandy landings.

[waltero]

The "large" scale paratroop operations was found to be disastrous!

In most games Paratroopers are used only as Elite units (for the most part). It is my guess that they will mainly be used for cutting supply and suporting ground attacks, where the defender would be doubled in defence. (rivers)

I don't think a guy will be able to air drop loads of units! if that were the case it would be a paratroop war.

[JerseyJohn]

In Market Garden 4 Airborne Divisions were used -- that would what? A large corps?

In Crete the Germans dropped or glidered at least 2 paratroop divisions -- A small corps?

In Sicily and Normandy the United States used the 82nd and 101st Divisions -- again, this is a small corps.

There should be the ability to create corps size airborne divisions. True, they ought to be elite units. And they should have the ability to act independently.

In a game where the tile or hex can represent a fifty mile area they have to be able to land directly on top of the defending unit, resolving combat. The most realistic result would call for one or the other to be forced out of the tile or hex after combat; an inability to do so means destruction of the unit.

In addition to that, naturally they should have the ability to be dropped on undefended tiles or hexes.

But for this game system as a WWII strategic simulater, unless it's being completely changed, the unit size needs to be a corps!

-- I don't see any point in basing this on other games. The question is what this game will do, not what other games have done. That isn't moving forward.

[waltero]

I agree totally! I would love to create mass amounts of paratroopers and trasports! When I say most games I am only referring to there knowledge, knowing that it is understood that a country would not expend loads of resources on something that has not been tried and tested.

I have seen footage on the german paratroopers.

in the early stages they would load them up on the transports wings and all! there they would be hanging from the wings of these plains and jump off.

[JerseyJohn]

The Russians did that too! I don't know which took it from the other, like sending infantry into battle riding on tanks and having them jump off as the small arms fire began. They trained together under the Weimar Republic, so I guess these were jointly developed tactics.

I agree with what you're saying. I think the first time paratroopers and glider assaults were actually used in major battles would have been the Low Countries 1940.

This would make sense because Germany had a lot more paratroops in 1941 than it had the previous year, indicating they'd been experimental at that time.

I'm not sure when Britain and the U. S. first started their programs but presumably they used the 1940 drops as their examples. The harnesses used were different, the German model being designed to allow the trooper to fire a weapon as he approached the ground; the Allied version was more constricting, but a little safer.

The Japanese used paratroopers in the Dutch East Indies to capture the oil fields. The were modelled directly off the German tactics and I believe trained by German instructors.

In the game, I think a lot of limiting factors could be built in. High cost of building such units. High losses in combat, chance of losses when dropped even under perfect conditions against an unoccupied hex or tile. And finally, when not used as paratroopers, they'd be little more than very expensive infantry.

I like the way they're generally represented as good units lacking in transport and heavy equipment. Encouraging their use in capacites where they'd be quickly augmented by more conventional ground units.