Possible Events for SC2

[Edwin P.]

Events for cases where the Axis or the Allies abandoned important cities.

Example: If Warsaw is not garrisonned and a Soviet unit approaches within 2 tiles after 1942 then the city revolts and a pro Allied partisan unit appears in it. This event can only happen once. (The Warsaw Uprising) (say 25%, 1 in 4 chance to happen)

Example: Each turn no Allied units are in Egypt or its ports there is a chance that Egypt revolts and a pro Axis partisan unit appears in Cairo. This event can only happen once. (The Egyptian officer corps and the general populace did not like the British) (say 2%, 1 in 50 turns)

Example: Each turn no Allied garrison is in Gibraltar there is a 1% Spain annexes Gibraltar and the port of Gibraltar is reduced to zero - thus allowing Allied and Axis ships to freely transit it. (even if Franco annexed Gibraltar, he would allow the British navy free transit to and from the Mediterrean). This event can only happen once. (1 %, 1 in 100 turns).

Question:

Are these historically possible events?

Is the chance for them occuring realistic?

Would they improve the game?

[ October 14, 2004, 08:10 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[JerseyJohn]

Edwin

Good ideas and good percentage chances of the events except they should probably be higher.

The Polish Underground almost joined the Ghetto fighters in 1943; if the situation in Russia would have been more favorable they almost certainly would have. Perhaps it should be a Soviet unit within five hexes and the city is not directly occupied by an Axis unit (in other words, being adjacent to it wouldn't count as occupying the place).

In the Spanish case, I think, if Franco annexed Gibraltar it might well have forced the UK to DOW on Spain even if the Spanish granted transit rights through the straights. It seems to be one piece of real estate the Brits are determined to hold on to for all time.

[Edwin P.]

In my view, in the Spanish case, the UK might have declared war on Spain, but only after defeating Germany and Italy.

But to open up another front and allow Germany access to Gibraltar would have been something that the Churchhill would have avoided, in my opinion.

[ October 14, 2004, 08:36 AM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[JerseyJohn]

I don't know about the whole premise, to be honest.

In the first case, as Shaka pointed out, though in game terms the Gibraltar garrison is represented by a corps it is really only a reinforced brigade -- why would the UK bother to withdraw them?

Beyond that, the Spanish governement as recently as 2002 sought to have the place returned to them and the British made it a refferendum, here's an entry on it from The World Book of Facts.

Introduction Gibraltar Top of Page

Background:

Strategically important, Gibraltar was ceded to Great Britain by Spain in the 1713 Treaty of Utrecht; the British garrison was formally declared a colony in 1830. In referendums held in 1967 and 2002, Gibraltarians ignored Spanish pressure and voted overwhelmingly to remain a British dependency.

I think it should be rephrased.

At their talk in the Pyranies in Autum 1940, one of the few issues that Hitler and Franco did discuss with any degree of convicion, was plans for German assistance in taking Gibraltar. Which is odd because Franco at that time had no intention whatever of joining the Axis except with a gun to his head; and Hitler had already sent the gun east.

Regarding a delayed DoW by the UK over Gibraltar, No, I really don't believe it could have happened that way. Once the initial period had passed and Gibraltar was formally allowed to pass under Spanish control the British would not have later gone to war to regain it -- no way their people would have gone along with it and no way the United States would have stood by passively and watched. By then the U. S. would have worked out a passage of the straits deal with Spain and recognized it as the rightful owner.

[Edwin P.]

"In the first case, as Shaka pointed out, though in game terms the Gibraltar garrison is represented by a corps it is really only a reinforced brigade -- why would the UK bother to withdraw them?"

Well, occassionaly I see my opponent will leave Gibraltar undefended, in the hope that the Italians will not make a move against it, at least until a new unit can be brought in. And if no land unit is close by an air unt can be operated in. (This may change in SC2 when an ampibious unit can move to a costal tile and land on the same turn)

[JerseyJohn]

Edwin,

I've found some information on exactly what the UK had as the Gibraltar Garrison during WWII, but it's from something called the Axis History Site and we need to keep in mind it was posted by a member, ergo may not be accurate.

2nd The Kings Regiment

2nd Somerset Light Infantry

4th Devonshire

4th Black Watch

3rd Heavy Regiment, Royal Artillery

So we're talking about four regiments of infantry and one of artillery. Somewhere above a division and below a corps I'd imagine. But that's picking away at details that are, essentially, pretty trivial. The normal peacetime garrison might well have been brigade stregnth.

Why not say if the Allied player fails to garrison Gibraltar there's a chance Spain will join the Axis in order to take it and, with each turn that it remains ungarrisoned the chances go up by 5% per turn.