Fortifications and terrain features

[Bromley]

I was wondering if anyone knows how terrain bonuses and fortifications interact?

Rivers are an easy one as they give an attack based modifier. But how does a fort on a mountain work? A mountain gives soft 2, hard 4 whereas a fortification gives soft 1, hard 3. Are they added together [3,7], is the best stat taken [2,4], does the fortification have no effect [2,4] or does the fortification overide the mountain [1,3]?

Although the second and third options there look like they generate the same result, they wouldn't if the tile was marsh, where the equivalent stats would be [2,3] and [2,2]. The answer to that first question will likely also cover my follow-up question about air penalties in fortified marsh tiles.

[TaoJah]

I always understood that a fortification overrides the terrain under it.

I am not sure on rivers : perhaps both the fortification AND the river counts.

[Bromley]

Rivers affect the attack strength of the attacking unit, whereas fortifications/terrain affect the defending part of that equation, so yes (AFAIK) they do both count.

If you're right about the override, then that means that fortifying a mountain actually reduces the defensive bonuses (although as it allows you an immediate entrenchment of 3, it might still be worth it).

[Terif]

Yep - it´s not complicated: fortifications simply override any terrain bonuses, i.e. only the bonuses from the fortification applies.

This also means it makes not so much sense to build fortifications in mountains since mountains already have higher defence bonuses than fortifications.

Rivers have nothing to do with fortifications, so their effect will be unchanged (halved attack values for attacks accross rivers)

[TaoJah]

About engineers... Where do you people use them anyway ? I always buy an Italian Engineer ASAP, but I haven't found a REAL proper use for them yes.

I use them to fortify the German-Russian border (if I play agressively and Russia joins before all troops are back) and dig some things in Europe and Germany, but I don't have enough troops to keep them garrisoned anyway, so a good Allied player probably parachutes the important ones away.

[Bromley]

Thanks guys.

TaoJah. I'm still pretty new to engineers, having only used the Russian freebie before, but with the reduction in price I can see a few uses for them:

Russia. No change here as the Russians can't buy an engineer, so have to wait for the freebie. Forward defence near Kharkov (or pos Moscow/Leningrad), otherwise standard Stalingrad. I was wondering if it's worth doing the Caucuses, but as the fortifications override mountains it'll almost never be worth it.

UK. Might be worth completing the defensive line in the desert. Or trying to entice the Axis into a Sealion having fortified Manchester.

US. Can't see why they'd ever use one.

Axis. Whether you get the Germans to buy one or the Italians, possibilies seem to be Rome, canals/straits (Kiel, Denmark, Sicily), France (Terif says not actually on the beach though, as that's just target practice for the RN). I suspect that engineers for the Axis are more important if you take the aggressive route vs. Minors, as you'll need to defend against D-Day sooner.

As always, this is for MP games. I've never tried it, but I suspect fortifying the border with Russia before Barbarossa would not be a winning strategy. Maybe in the later game if you see Barbarossa going pear-shaped, but planning on doing it earlier is probably a waste of MMPs that might turn the tide.

[ December 29, 2006, 08:48 AM: Message edited by: Bromley ]