L'Elle Hell-Can Allies Win better than Minor?

[kverdon]

S[poilers Below***************************

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Well I've played Moon's L'Elle River crossing Scenarion and I've come to conclude that this is the Scenario from H$LL. I really don't see how the Allies can expect to get more than a minor/tactical Victory out of this one. I did get a decisive once but it was a fluke. The other dozen times its been Tactical or minor. The problem comes with the company sized German Para counter-attack at Le Mesnil at the end of the game. If you played anywhere near honestly, you will have suffered some casualties by then and will not have the firepower to stop the counterattack I once managed to get 5 Mg Teams and at least two platoons of 12 mem squads with plenty of ammo dug in the town along with a 105 arty spotter with 58 rounds left. There was still no way I could keep the Para Counterattack from neutralizing the Victory Flag for the town and thus sticking me with a tactical victory. This mind you was really cheating as I knew the attack was coming. Even then I could not kill enough of them to keep them from contesting the Victory Flag. I've given it my best shot and concede that the best I'll ever see is a Tactical Victory.

In the last attempt I took out all the German flanking Mg positions on the approach, smoked the Bunkers and made a fairly painless river crossing. I was able to capture the chatuea pretty handily and got my troops into Le Mesnil by about turn 27. I then garisoned the town with the fresh two platoons of reinforcements along with 5 mg teams and a few other good order squads. I felt confident I could hold off the German Para counter-attack with this. Wrong!!

The only consolation I can take is that perhaps this is how Moon designed it. From reading "Beyond the Beachead", the actual battle was a bitter fight for the 115th of the 29th and they tood heavy caualties. If anyone can consistantly get better than a Tactiacal/Minor victory in this one I tip my hat to you and would appreciate the tips.

Thanks,

Kevin

[Ron]

SPOILER

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I am playing L'Elle as the US (doubleblind pbem), currently in the last turns, and it has been one hell of a ride. I'm coming to the conclusion also that the odds were stacked against the GIs.

The actual river crossing went quite well. I feinted on the right flank with a smoke barrage and 'showed' a platoon on the left. The Germans responded with artillery and MGs. Five platoons, right center, then crossed in tandem under smoke cover. Casualties were relatively light as I discovered and destroyed some MG nests and wooden bunkers. The German artillery responded by harassing my main force.

Three platoons advanced up the central woods, the other two towards Chateau de Rochefort. The left feinting platoon was having a hard time from artillery and MG fire trying to cross with limited support.

I set up the attack on the Chateau with two platoons and MGs. A third would conduct a flanking maneuver from the central woods. Artillery was prep firing the area. A jeep did a recon.

I also set up a MG fire base near the bridge at Moulin Jourdan and attacked les Duchemins with the remaining two platoons from the central woods. German artillery continued to harass my forces.

The attack on les Duchemins went off without a hitch. The attack on the Chateau not so well. My artillery seemed to have little effect on the strong opposition there, casualties were becoming heavy, I didn't think my force was strong enough to take it. In response I loaded up one of the reinforcing platoons in trucks to act as a fire brigade and sent them to the Chateau to carry the battle, which they did. The three initial attacking platoons were of no further use offensively though Rochefort was now in US hands. The fire brigade I loaded back in the trucks to help take le Mesnil.

The left feinting platoon finally crossed the river only to be decimated by ambushing Germans. I retreated them. They were only a feint anyway.

The other reinforcing platoon moved to les Duchemins to support the troops there which were cautiously advancing on le Mesnil. I now had four platoons(two fresh), MG support and artillery to take the last objective.

I probed le Mesnil with two platoons and artillery, one platoon guarding the flank and the other in reserve. They were met by heavy fire and return artillery. It looked like a tough nut to crack, casualties mounting, when I was attacked by superior German forces on my flank. Artillery was switched to cover a withdrawl as I attempted to extricate my troops back to the safety of les Duchemins. It turned into a rout as only one platoon managed to retreat relatively intact, two more were virtually wiped out.

I am now in a defensive position at les Duchemins with two platoons(one battered) and MGs. There is no more artillery support. I have no expectation of taking le Mesnil, only preventing a further rout in the remaining turns. I have a slight edge in the overall score at the moment but that may be illusory.

From what I have seen thus far the Germans had/have as many troops as the US and as much if not more artillery, some definitely larger. I too would like to know what is a realistic result for US in this scenario as it appears quite difficult though very enjoyable

[This message has been edited by Ron (edited 09-09-2000).]

[Guest kking199]

Well... I fought to a draw. Being only my 7th battle including Demo. I made several tactical erros along the way. I pretty much wasted ALL of my Arty attemping to knock out the Bunkers... please keep your laughter to a minimum. Of course I only knocked out 2. My fight in a nutshell.

SPOILER!!!

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I went wide right with (Company A shall we say)and wide left (with Company , except I sent a Platoon into the woods to the left of the road to take Jourdan. Company B progressed fine, to it's respected edge of the woods, with the one platoon overlooking Jourdan. A Company moved had a little more harrasing fire but my two far right platoons made it over with covering fire from my MG's on the wooded bluff, and the town to their far left, where road is. The other platoon who moved up with my MG's was a little exposed so I smoked to cover their crossing. This platoon then went left on a rampage clearing every MG nest along the woods and taking out the MG bunker... it was a beautiful thing. My other two platoons proceeded unapposed and eventually up to the road right of Rochefort. On the left A company began to be shelled, all 3 platoons, so I decided to rush my crossing at the far left with 2 platoons, covered by 2 MG's, while the platoon above Jourdan made a pretty much exposed dash for the woods below. I ran into a little resistance far left but overran it, had a few casulties from Arty, but all in all still at 80% strength. Whew... I then proceed my far two left platoons up unapposed, take out the remaiming bunker, and begin to move around wheat field, with a lead squad out probing, about 100M ahead. Back to the right the rampage squad begins to move up the large field, direcly behind bunker, hugging the tree line, begin to take fire from Inf at top edge of woods, we jump into the woods and move up and begin another sweep across, but I think I got to aggresive, we end up getting, beaten up pretty badly, but I kill off all but one unit. This platoon is effectively out of the fight, at 30% and out of ammo. My far right attack on Rochefort is severly bungled when I rush the town from the Boche with 1 Inf platoon before I probed for defensive positions, I am a sad to report this entire platoon was wiped out save 3 men... and I am pissed amd embarrassed. I leave my 3 Mortars and 2 Bazookas at road/boche area just to right of Rochefort and send my other Inf Platoon back down road swing around Boche and move up parallel to the road on other side of Boche. Ok, C company has arrived and I send them down the road towards Duchemis as my platoon in Jourdan with assistance from 2 MG's and a .50 drive out the resistance across L'elle. This is finished by the time C company gets to bridge as the Jourdan platoon is able to cross 2 squads and HQ and flank and clear out resistance. My far left flank runs into resistance and is jumped from Boche as I move around wheat field on either side, I am hurt pretty bad, and fall back to wait for C company to move up to take Mensil. I then attack Mensil with C company and probably 60% of A company. I sweep through town from the right and rush a MG, low on ammo, with a jeep to far back building, a squad also gets back there as well. This helps distract Jerry for my main attack. Just as we take town the reinforcements arrive, this is at turn 41 or so. My botched Rochefort attack I try to assist by rushing up some MG's to the church with a jeep and truck. I also come up to the edge of the town with my rampage platoon to try attract and distract. To no avail, enemy to strong and I botch my MG rush due to poor waypoint management... . Rochefort is not taken. If game had not ended it would have been a bloody fight for Mensil.

It was a 50-50 draw. But I loved this map, favorite so far, despite my bungles and mismanagement. Strategically/tactically this has been the hardest so far. Against a competent human opponent I think this would be VERY difficult to win as Allies.

[This message has been edited by kking199 (edited 10-18-2000).]

[Spacewrangler]

Yeah, this was actually my first scenario pbem (as opposed to QB). I was the allies and it ended up being a German tactical.

After the PBEM was over, I loaded it up as the germans to see what he started off with and couldn't believe that I did so well.

The germans start with I believe 4 artillery reference points, which makes life that much easier for them. If I was the Germans, I would target the bridge and try and blow it as soon as the americans get there.

As the Americans, I was afraid this was going to happen the whole time. Those 4 trucks are a godsend in this scenario, I used them over and over to shuttle my boys around, especially the two platoons of reinforcements.

I never took any victory locations but took out all but 1 pillbox and inflicted a lot of casualties, it was bloody.

To be honest, I would give this scenario a 9 out of 10 for difficulty as the Americans. Any american commander up against a german commander of equal ability will probably lose.

If I had one suggestion to make, I would say to balance the scenario out a little bit, the American reinforcements should show up in half tracks (at least one platoon anyway) or a Sherman should come along with the reinforcements.

Historically, the Americans did use tanks to bust through the bocage, and at that early stage in the campaign, the Germans still had the majority of their tanks in Calais, so it wouldnt' be unrealistic to give the Americans one tank while the germans wouldn't have any.

My .02

[kverdon]

Unfortunately the 115th Inf of the 29th had neither halftracks or any armor available to them in this battle. What is really the killer to me is the large set of reinforcements the Germans get right at the end of the battle. This fresh set of troops against your battle fatigued vets is pretty hard to weather as the amis.

Kevin