Artillery Barrage - odd result

[meditek]

In CMBO I noticed how oddly specific the results of being caught in a barrage could be. At the end it often seemed to have picked off my machine gunners, flamethrowers and mortars while the ordinary guys were far less effected. In other words the shells were not truly random but seemed to follow some of the internal game rules concerning fire in general.

Is this true of CMBB?

meditek

[John D Salt]

Originally posted by meditek:

In CMBO I noticed how oddly specific the results of being caught in a barrage could be. At the end it often seemed to have picked off my machine gunners, flamethrowers and mortars while the ordinary guys were far less effected. In other words the shells were not truly random but seemed to follow some of the internal game rules concerning fire in general.

Is this true of CMBB?

meditek

It's true that when you look at the ground after an artillery concentration (Mr. Picky doesn't think barrages happen in CM), you will see more destroyed anti-tank teams and the like than destroyed sections (squads). However, I suspect that the reason is simply that you don;t see the "bodies" until an element is completely destroyed, and large groups of men are less likely to be completely destroyed than small ones.

Consider the case where the artillery is so dangerous that it knocks out half (that's 50%, or, if you prefer, seven in every fourteen) of the men in the area of effect.

The chance of a group of 2 men being completely destroyed is 25%.

For a 4-man group, it is 6%.

For an 8-man group, it is less than half of 1%.

You should reasonably expect to see a lot more dead 2-man groups than dead sections.

All the best,

John.

[meditek]

Thanks, all seems quite logical but I still have suspicions being a paranoid sort of guy.

meditek

[Silvio Manuel]

Originally posted by John D Salt:

The chance of a group of 2 men being completely destroyed is 25%.../snip/

You should reasonably expect to see a lot more dead 2-man groups than dead sections.

Esp. if the 2-man unit already had one man down b/c of pre-game casualty assessments, LOL. I just lost a few flamethrower teams b/c of that (though from bunker MG fire).

[ November 25, 2002, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Silvio Manuel ]

[Dr. Osage]

I have had three odd artillery situations in the last two weeks.

1. The FO calls in 105 MM artillery on a Russian gun emplacement. However the artillery barrage falls on a portion of the German line (hundreds of meters from where the yellow site line is pointing to the enemy) taking out beaucoup panzertruppen and one 251/2.

2. The FO calls in 105 MM artillery on a Russian gun emplcement. However the artillery barrage falls in mid air out in that green nowhere zone off map.

3. I purchase two FOs (105 MM) and during the start up phase as well as throughout the QB they refuse to embark on any vehicle and thus have to walk or run everywhere.

Note that these were not green FOs. Very puzzeling.

[demoss]

1. The FO calls in 105 MM artillery on a Russian gun emplacement. However the artillery barrage falls on a portion of the German line (hundreds of meters from where the yellow site line is pointing to the enemy) taking out beaucoup panzertruppen and one 251/2.

2. The FO calls in 105 MM artillery on a Russian gun emplcement. However the artillery barrage falls in mid air out in that green nowhere zone off map.

3. I purchase two FOs (105 MM) and during the start up phase as well as throughout the QB they refuse to embark on any vehicle and thus have to walk or run everywhere.

1. Gotta have LOS (or a TRP, or a pregame bombardment) when you first call for the mission. Getting LOS later doesn't seem to help, nor does losing it seem to hurt (but I've had less experience with the latter).

2. See 1.

3. Can't embark with a wire (slow speed) observer. Only radio (medium speed) obserers can embark.

[Michael Emrys]

Originally posted by John D Salt:

It's true that when you look at the ground after an artillery concentration (Mr. Picky doesn't think barrages happen in CM), you will see more destroyed anti-tank teams and the like than destroyed sections (squads). However, I suspect that the reason is simply that you don;t see the "bodies" until an element is completely destroyed, and large groups of men are less likely to be completely destroyed than small ones.

Consider the case where the artillery is so dangerous that it knocks out half (that's 50%, or, if you prefer, seven in every fourteen) of the men in the area of effect.

The chance of a group of 2 men being completely destroyed is 25%.

For a 4-man group, it is 6%.

For an 8-man group, it is less than half of 1%.

You should reasonably expect to see a lot more dead 2-man groups than dead sections.

John, I'm not at all that this is true in the game. I don't know about BB yet, but I noticed in BO that for a given amount of firepower times a given degree of exposure, it was easy to get a lot of casualties on a full strength squad, but took many turns to get the last man. Similarly, it was hard to inflict casualties on a small team. From this observation I deduced that for a given amount of firepower and exposure, the engine would calculate a certain percentage of casualties and multiply that times the number of personnel remaining in the unit, then round that figure down to the nearest whole number. That number would then represent the number of casualties subtracted from that unit in that round. Thus, 25% of 8 men=2 casualties; 25% of 2 men=nil. Of course, on the next round of firing, the same calculations might yield a 50% casualty rate, in which case your 2 man team would then lose a man.

Now, my thinking about how the engine works may be way off. So far as I know, BTS has never discussed how this works, so I am only guessing. But anyway, what I described is consistent with what I observed. As for meditek's problem, I guess BB just has it in for teams.

Michael

[Chelt]

Originally posted by meditek:

At the end it often seemed to have picked off my machine gunners, flamethrowers and mortars while the ordinary guys were far less effected.

I rather suspect that this might also happen because your heavy-weapons teams can't run, and take a longer time to escape from under the barrage, whether at your orders or after they've broken. Ordinary infantrymen can just up and flee.