Fionn's Balanced Rules

[Bridge]

The detailed Force rules

I'am referring to the doc's... Infantry Only Rules and Recon Rules, the box grid area under each: I'm questioning the towed guns and artillery maximum. It reads as follows

Artillery: 81mm Maximum

Towed Guns: Any and all Towed Guns excluding Light and Medium Flaks - See Notes page.

Are Towed Guns limited to 81mm Maximum? What makes me question this, the words Any and all Towed Guns.

Thanks

NC

[ July 22, 2002, 11:08 AM: Message edited by: Col.Burn ]

[Stixx]

Originally posted by Col.Burn:

Are Towed Guns limited to 81mm Maximum? What makes me question this, is the wordsAny and all Towed Guns.

Thanks

NC

It means exactly what it says mate, any and all except the flaks.

You can take 76mm or 88's but what is the use on an "Infantry" force?. Germans can take 150mm IG's if they want because after all they are an "Infantry" gun.

[Bridge]

Thanks mate, that just how I read it!!

I would guess that would apply to Towed AT guns too?

[Fionn]

Yup, I figured that if someone was dumb enough to want a 90mm ATG in an all-infantry (or recon rules game) then I was happy to give them enough rope to hang themselves with

[Bridge]

Originally posted by Fionn:

Yup, I figured that if someone was dumb enough to want a 90mm ATG in an all-infantry (or recon rules game) then I was happy to give them enough rope to hang themselves with

Thanks Fionn

I read an explanation on this rule but can't seem to locate where.

[Fionn]

I believe there explanations can be found hyperlinked from the original page locations on Rugged Defence...

I'm sure someone else can remember the link ( I can't right now).

[Austrian Strategist]

Can we look forward to being rid of any kind of 'Balancing Rules' in CMBB? :cool:

Or will it all start anew? ('Minefields are unbalanced because blah blah yada yada yada, Russian Warm Coats are unbalanced, because Italians don´t have them yada blah blah...)

[Fionn]

Sadly balance rules, like a**holes, will still be with us.

Enjoy your evening.

[imported_Hiram Sedai]

As long as there are Overkill type of players, there will be a need for some sort of rules that balance out gameplay. It's only when you force yourself to learn how to play with the less powerful forces, that you really start to appreciate the intracacies of the game.

My opinion, of course.

[Guest Mike]

CMBB includes the option of paying extra points for "rare" equipment, which will go some way to providing for balance.

But it's not a great setup IMO - better than nothing..perhaps (time will tell), but far from perfect.

For example in a preview game set in mid 1942 the Russians could get T26 m31's for the basic cost (those are the T-26's with 2 MG turrets and no cannon) while the T26-C (I think, m37??) with the 45mm cannon had something like +20% penalty. BT-5's and -7's had an even higher penalty, but Matilda 2's (Brit lend-lease) were relatively cheap - no penalty I think.

T-60's and -40's and the like also had rareness penalties.

As did the KV-2 I bought for a laugh - it had 100% or more, but that seemed fair enough! Then it came back and bit me bum when it only got off 2 or 3 shots and didn't hit anything before getting toasted!!

Now to me I'm surprised there were any T26 m31's left in the world by 1942!! While I'd expect there would still have been significant nubmers of the far more numerous 45mm gun tanks of all varieties (BT-2 to -7, later T26's).

And there was the utterly ludicrous situation where Pz 1's had a penalty applied (too I think the 1b had less of a penalty than the 1) - sure they were rare by 42, but, like, who cares??!!

I'd prefer to see something like "later or upgunned tanks in excess of the number of earlier versions still in service pay +50% (or whatever)".

This would be a dynamic calculation based on the actual force mix you used - so you might have to mix your panzer IV F's with some D's and E's, Pz-III H's (50l42) with some D's or E's (37mm).

Sigh - well it's a start at least.

(edited 'cos I still spell like carp)

[ July 23, 2002, 07:46 PM: Message edited by: Mike ]

[Austrian Strategist]

Originally posted by Hiram Sedai:

It's only when you force yourself to learn how to play with the less powerful forces, that you really start to appreciate the intracacies of the game.

My opinion, of course.

Pts Value should take care of that. The more powerful, the more expensive. Mistakes in this department would be the only justifiable reason for Balancing Rules I can think of.

[Smiler]

Originally posted by Austrian Strategist:

Pts Value should take care of that. The more powerful, the more expensive. Mistakes in this department would be the only justifiable reason for Balancing Rules I can think of.

Except that it's not possible for pts to take care of it.

The problem is that the value of a unit depends in large part on what your opponent has chosen. What would you rather have; a Sherman 75 or a Jackson? Well it depends -- the 75s are overmatched against the cats but excellent against infantry.

This is what is sometimes frustrating about being an allied player -- the allied armor is very effective against 90% of the enemy's arsenal (and thus must be priced accordingly), but when one of the 10% steps forward (think tiger II)....well, you know you have your work cut out for you.

The balancing rules attempt to eliminate these mismatches for both sides to ensure that the points are comparable.

[Austrian Strategist]

Originally posted by Smiler:

This is what is sometimes frustrating about being an allied player -- the allied armor is very effective against 90% of the enemy's arsenal (and thus must be priced accordingly), but when one of the 10% steps forward (think tiger II)....well, you know you have your work cut out for you.

I can´t relate to this quote.

1) I have never found Allied Armour very effective. They die like flies. With Allies, esp Americans, I rely on Infantry (lots), Artillery (lots) and cheap Vehicles (lots). Against Allies, I am always happy when they buy Armour. They die like flies.

2) Have you tried to swarm the Tiger with Infantry? To immobilize it, or even drive the crew out, with heavy Arty? Or simply buy a Plane? Maybe I am dreadfully wrong here, but I find the Super-Heavies unimpressive. On the Attack, they are slow, and too risky anyway. AT Mines.

Fionn Rules are like Psychoanalysis: They are the illness they are supposed to cure.