There is no enemy for Panzer until spotted?

[CK]

Q:

Why the Panzers do not stop and reverse/seek cover when they are shot with big unspotted guns?

They do it when they see the enemy while moving/hunting/etc., don't they?

Example:

-Puma is moving with hunt-command, unbuttoned.

-No shooting from either side.

-A shell explodes within few meters, no reaction. Moving still ahead unbuttoned.

-Next shot hits and penetrates armor killing the leader, shocked. Still moving ahead..

-A shot again, this time a missed one..still moving ahead.

-Last shot penetrates and kills all the rest but one...Stopped at last.

If the Puma had seen the enemy it would have stopped and reversed away from the fire, right?

Are the units missing a critical assumption, the general direction of enemy, or why aren't they responding at all when they get shot at with big guns that can destroy them instantly?

[CK]

Q:

Why the Panzers do not stop and reverse/seek cover when they are shot with big unspotted guns?

They do it when they see the enemy while moving/hunting/etc., don't they?

Example:

-Puma is moving with hunt-command, unbuttoned.

-No shooting from either side.

-A shell explodes within few meters, no reaction. Moving still ahead unbuttoned.

-Next shot hits and penetrates armor killing the leader, shocked. Still moving ahead..

-A shot again, this time a missed one..still moving ahead.

-Last shot penetrates and kills all the rest but one...Stopped at last.

If the Puma had seen the enemy it would have stopped and reversed away from the fire, right?

Are the units missing a critical assumption, the general direction of enemy, or why aren't they responding at all when they get shot at with big guns that can destroy them instantly?

[jdmorse]

Originally posted by CK:

Q:

If the Puma had seen the enemy it would have stopped and reversed away from the fire, right?

Not necessarily. Why would Puma reverse if not sure where shot came from? Any place might be just as exposed. Also the AI maybe more attuned. An example, I had a PzIVD hunting, spotted a KV2, takes a shot and starts to back up, the a second KV2 shows up and AI puts pedal to metal, goes forward, because ground and terrain were more favorable up ahead than behind.

So backing up may not have been the best course, and esp if your unit is unsure where the shot came from.

[jdmorse]

Originally posted by CK:

Q:

If the Puma had seen the enemy it would have stopped and reversed away from the fire, right?

Not necessarily. Why would Puma reverse if not sure where shot came from? Any place might be just as exposed. Also the AI maybe more attuned. An example, I had a PzIVD hunting, spotted a KV2, takes a shot and starts to back up, the a second KV2 shows up and AI puts pedal to metal, goes forward, because ground and terrain were more favorable up ahead than behind.

So backing up may not have been the best course, and esp if your unit is unsure where the shot came from.

[CK]

I agree that AI does well when the enemy is seen like in your example.

But is does NOTHING when the firing enemy is not seen. That is the problem.

The Puma cannot be sure where the shot came from, but it should have an idea where the enemy might be. Units assume that every place is equally potential for enemy to be in? Not very tempting idea.

The units are missing a default direction of enemy and it cannot be given?

One should be able to give the units the "quess" where the enemy is if the AI is not able to reduce the possibilities from everything that is seen?

some other examples:

-When you are coming from behind a house and you get shot in your "building side" you should be able to quess where the fire is coming from and maybe back up or drive fast forward to get to the cover of next building. Not continue hunting on open.

-Or when you are hit in the front repeatedly you should do something else than keep on driving forward unbuttoned untill you get penetrating hit and you die. Why not smoke and maybe cover if near?

-You are hull down and you get repeatedly shot in the side of the turret with AT-rifle, but you don't even bother to turn the turret to where the fire is coming from...and finally you get the bullet inside.

Armored units do not react at all on fire if they do not see where it is coming from.

AI is definately not easy to program, but it is one of the most important things when it comes to this game.

[CK]

I agree that AI does well when the enemy is seen like in your example.

But is does NOTHING when the firing enemy is not seen. That is the problem.

The Puma cannot be sure where the shot came from, but it should have an idea where the enemy might be. Units assume that every place is equally potential for enemy to be in? Not very tempting idea.

The units are missing a default direction of enemy and it cannot be given?

One should be able to give the units the "quess" where the enemy is if the AI is not able to reduce the possibilities from everything that is seen?

some other examples:

-When you are coming from behind a house and you get shot in your "building side" you should be able to quess where the fire is coming from and maybe back up or drive fast forward to get to the cover of next building. Not continue hunting on open.

-Or when you are hit in the front repeatedly you should do something else than keep on driving forward unbuttoned untill you get penetrating hit and you die. Why not smoke and maybe cover if near?

-You are hull down and you get repeatedly shot in the side of the turret with AT-rifle, but you don't even bother to turn the turret to where the fire is coming from...and finally you get the bullet inside.

Armored units do not react at all on fire if they do not see where it is coming from.

AI is definately not easy to program, but it is one of the most important things when it comes to this game.

[Chelt]

Originally posted by CK:

One should be able to give the units the "quess" where the enemy is if the AI is not able to reduce the possibilities from everything that is seen?

I think that you might be asking too much of the AI, if you expected the TacAI to guess where enemy units might be, although the Strat AI does just that when it places its own units. Anyway, it's a programmer's question.

I do like the way that TacOps handles units coming under fire. In TacOps, you can tell the AI what to do if it comes under fire, by assigning an SOP to any individual unit, or to any type of unit, maybe "all Bradleys." I can tell a unit to pop smoke, reverse 100 meters, and disembark all passengers, if it comes under fire. Or I can tell it to stop and shoot back.

David

[Chelt]

Originally posted by CK:

One should be able to give the units the "quess" where the enemy is if the AI is not able to reduce the possibilities from everything that is seen?

I think that you might be asking too much of the AI, if you expected the TacAI to guess where enemy units might be, although the Strat AI does just that when it places its own units. Anyway, it's a programmer's question.

I do like the way that TacOps handles units coming under fire. In TacOps, you can tell the AI what to do if it comes under fire, by assigning an SOP to any individual unit, or to any type of unit, maybe "all Bradleys." I can tell a unit to pop smoke, reverse 100 meters, and disembark all passengers, if it comes under fire. Or I can tell it to stop and shoot back.

David

[CK]

Originally posted by Trap One:

[QB

I do like the way that TacOps handles units coming under fire. In TacOps, you can tell the AI what to do if it comes under fire, by assigning an SOP to any individual unit, or to any type of unit, maybe "all Bradleys." I can tell a unit to pop smoke, reverse 100 meters, and disembark all passengers, if it comes under fire. Or I can tell it to stop and shoot back.

David[/QB]

This would be nice in CMBB too if TacAI is too difficult to program.

[CK]

Originally posted by Trap One:

[QB

I do like the way that TacOps handles units coming under fire. In TacOps, you can tell the AI what to do if it comes under fire, by assigning an SOP to any individual unit, or to any type of unit, maybe "all Bradleys." I can tell a unit to pop smoke, reverse 100 meters, and disembark all passengers, if it comes under fire. Or I can tell it to stop and shoot back.

David[/QB]

This would be nice in CMBB too if TacAI is too difficult to program.

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by CK:

Example:

-Puma is moving with hunt-command, unbuttoned.

There's your problem!

You use "Hunt" instead of "Move to contact".

For me "Hunt" means "Shoot any enemies you see, you'll see them before they can kill you".

This mean that it shouldn't typically be used a lot or for longer distances by anything but heavy armour.

Cheers

Olle

[Olle Petersson]

Originally posted by CK:

Example:

-Puma is moving with hunt-command, unbuttoned.

There's your problem!

You use "Hunt" instead of "Move to contact".

For me "Hunt" means "Shoot any enemies you see, you'll see them before they can kill you".

This mean that it shouldn't typically be used a lot or for longer distances by anything but heavy armour.

Cheers

Olle