Announcing RobO's Quick Campaign!

[Robert Olesen]

Look at the end of this post to find out how to get a copy.

In ROQC you play the role of a commander who leads a Core Force through the whole east front campaign. You can start from Operation Barbarossa on June 22nd 1941 and will randomly roll up battles interspaced with periods of rest and refit. There should be on average one battle per month, amounting to ca. 50 battles to complete the full campaign. You can also play a shorter campaign by starting later and/or finishing earlier. This rate of battles is obviously not realistic, but it is a design decision to allow you to proceed fairly quickly and try out different campaign forces.

During this you will lose men and equipment and have some replacements (probably not enough if you play German), keep track of the experience of your units and upgrade your equipment. You will also earn or lose Favor as you go along. Favor can be used to upgrade your units and to gain favors from your commander, e.g. to make a battle less disadvantageous.

Many of the battles you encounter will not be balanced. The aim is not to provide fair fights, but to give you the challenge of surviving and learning through the war. Keep in mind that your opponent is the feeble AI.

If this sounds somewhat like Biltong's campaign, well, that is because his excellent campaign was an inspiration for me. The difference is the level of detail. You can play through the whole East Front war in ROQC in roughly the same number of battles that it takes to go through Biltong's 41 campaign. In addition, I have made an effort to simplify the rules and minimize your bookkeping.

The rules are currently at version 0.7. The basic system is in place and works well, but it still needs tuning of play balance and historical accuracy. I need feedback from you for the tuning of play balance and advice from people more vell versed in the history of the East Front war then me to tune the historical accuracy. I'm not illiterate on the subject, but not a history buff either. I also need help/information to be able to extend this to other nationalities and regions. Drop me an email or post here if you're interested in helping out.

That said, the rules are quite playable and fun (I wouldn't release them otherwise). Try them out, I think you'll like it - that is if this kind of thing appeals to you.

Download site now available here (Note: Download address changed april 21)

There are two sets of files: Rules and spreadsheet tables, and both come in two versions.

- Rules in MS Word format (.doc)

- Rules in pdf format

- Speadsheet tables in MS Excel format (.xls)

- Spreadsheet tables as gif files

You need both the rules and the spreadsheet tables. The total size is btw. 500k and 700k.

ROQC is for those who want to see their force develop through the hardship of the eastern front within a reasonable length of time. One of my reasons for making it was the extraordinary amount of fun I had playing the random campaign of the first Steel Panthers game, and to some extent the Panzer General campaigns.

I hope you like it

[ April 21, 2003, 06:54 AM: Message edited by: Robert Olesen ]

[Robert Olesen]

Download site available here(Note: Download address changed april 21)

[ April 21, 2003, 06:56 AM: Message edited by: Robert Olesen ]

[Specs]

Ah, the EZ version of Biltong's full-on 1040 with itemized deductions and Schedule D attached. And it's conveniently functional with the dice from my Monopoly game! Just the thing for us lightweights.

Regardless of BTS' stand on the topic, I believe the great virtue of the campaign concept is that it's a device that takes players through the entire war, offering a chance to experience the changing technology and its impact on the ebb and flow of battle. A condensed, simplified version of BCR is a useful tool for broadening one's experience base if new to the game -- of if, like me, you don't harbor a great deal of fascination for the Second World War. It's easy for casual players to slip into a "comfort zone"...

Rattle your cage with ROQC!

[Robert Olesen]

I got a - predictable - request to allow you to track the abilities of leaders.

The problem with this is that it requires you to purchase your units in the editor. This also requires you to define the map in the editor. The editor does not allow random settings for the various parameters, and there are quite a lot of parameters that I have not specified tables for. Partly because I might as well reuse the random generator already coded into CMBB and partly because I don't have the required info to specify proper terrain and weather conditions for every month from june 41 to may 45 in the different regions.

If I could use the QB generator to make a map, then load it into the editor to purchase and edit the units, and finally load that into the battle itself, then I'd be willing to give it a go. But I don't know how to do that. The editor does not seem to be able to load QB files, even after the game is finished.

Perhaps someone can come up with a suggestion or solution on how to load QB files into the editor?

[Robert Olesen]

Originally posted by Specs:

Ah, the EZ version of Biltong's full-on 1040 with itemized deductions and Schedule D attached. And it's conveniently functional with the dice from my Monopoly game! Just the thing for us lightweights.

That's the idea, sort of. But it is quite possible that very few lightweights are using this forum.

Regardless of BTS' stand on the topic, I believe the great virtue of the campaign concept is that it's a device that takes players through the entire war, offering a chance to experience the changing technology and its impact on the ebb and flow of battle. A condensed, simplified version of BCR is a useful tool for broadening one's experience base if new to the game -- of if, like me, you don't harbor a great deal of fascination for the Second World War. It's easy for casual players to slip into a "comfort zone"...

I know quite well how BTS stands on this topic. But I think that such a campaign has merit. I also appreciate that they have to choose which features to implement.

Rattle your cage with ROQC!

My cage :confused: What cage?

[Brigadier]

Rob I think Specs is a purist , hardcore devotee of "the base game". Nothing wrong with that , to each their own .

Don't be deterred , it appears you have put a tremendous amount of effort into your mod and it should be acknowledged as such. Well done.

[Robert Olesen]

Originally posted by Brigadier:

Rob I think Specs is a purist , hardcore devotee of "the base game". Nothing wrong with that , to each their own .

Don't be deterred , it appears you have put a tremendous amount of effort into your mod and it should be acknowledged as such. Well done.

Thanks, and I'm not deterred. I know that there has been some heated debates on the campaign topic in the past. I've been using these forums for some years by now - on and off.

Actually, I think some medium- or even heavyweight players might find som fun in this kind of setup. It throws you into some QBs you would not have picked by yourself.

[Specs]

I'm not sure why my comment was interpreted as detracting from or disparaging ROQC... Too breezy, I suppose.

My intent was to suggest that, in addition to appealing to players who miss having some level of "ownership" over their force, a simplified campaign is potentially a useful teaching tool for newbies and less experienced/less hardcore players. Exploring the possibilities and problems that come up as formations and hardware change throughout the war can be kind of intimidating, as there's an enormous amount of information to keep track of outside whatever's going on in any given battle. A campaign encompassing the entire war in 40 or 50 battles provides a context in which to consider, and hopefully understand, one's changing options.

[Robert Olesen]

Much clearer, Specs, thank you. My thoughts exactly. Whixh is why I need some more info on logistics through the east front campaign, to be able to better simulate those effects for both sides. Mainly availability of replacements (men and equipment) and ammo and quality of replacements during the east front war.

I haven't got much so far besides my existing knowledge, which is reasonable but could be improved. I'll dig up some more info myself, just haven't had the time.

[DaffyDuck]

I downloaded your rules and read them over and they look good. I don't get to play CMBB all the time so if I only get a battle in every once in a while it will take me forever to complete BCR. Your rules look like a good way for a more infrequent player like myself to get a good overview of all the different conditions throughout the war. I might give this a try. I like the flexibility of selecting just what type of units to include in your core group.

I may use a sort of mixture of ROQC and BCR, mixing the things I like from both. For instance, I like the way auxiliary units are selected for you by the computer in BCR. It forces you to use all sorts of things you might not ever pick yourself.

I haven't actually crunched the numbers or played any ROQC battles out yet, but there is one thing that I didn't like in the rules: casualties. Your casualties rules combined with the random handicap will lead to some very lopsided battles. I know we're just playing the AI, but I'm just not all that good (see JasonC's comments on my games if you don't believe me). I'd prefer it if the casualties were just used to set the appropriate quick battle parameter (less housekeeping than with moving guys off the map). If you want an unbalanced game put that all in the handicap. Then you can easily put in a modifier for player skill to give us newbies a break. That's probably how I'll play it.

Please don't take that as criticism. I'm just trying to get the ball rolling on discussing how we can make this a good, but quick, campaign.

[Robert Olesen]

Originally posted by DaffyDuck:

I may use a sort of mixture of ROQC and BCR, mixing the things I like from both. For instance, I like the way auxiliary units are selected for you by the computer in BCR. It forces you to use all sorts of things you might not ever pick yourself.

Go right ahead

I removed that to achieve greater simplicity.

I haven't actually crunched the numbers or played any ROQC battles out yet, but there is one thing that I didn't like in the rules: casualties. Your casualties rules combined with the random handicap will lead to some very lopsided battles. I know we're just playing the AI, but I'm just not all that good (see JasonC's comments on my games if you don't believe me). I'd prefer it if the casualties were just used to set the appropriate quick battle parameter (less housekeeping than with moving guys off the map). If you want an unbalanced game put that all in the handicap. Then you can easily put in a modifier for player skill to give us newbies a break. That's probably how I'll play it.

You are quite correct. That was an oversight, and I'm working on it right now. I'd recommend just ignoring the support force casualty parameter - you can't use the casualty setting in the QB generator as that will affect your core force as well.

I'm also working on a set of optional rules that allow you to use the editor to keep track of your core force. It is more work, but a good deal of people don't mind that, as it gives you much more control over e.g. HQ bonus values. They should go out on tuesday or wednesday. Email me if you want a preview.

Please don't take that as criticism. I'm just trying to get the ball rolling on discussing how we can make this a good, but quick, campaign.

Don't worry, that's exactly the kind of feedback I'm looking for. Thanks.

[OBJ]

Rob-

'If I could use the QB generator to make a map, then load it into the editor to purchase and edit the units, and finally load that into the battle itself, then I'd be willing to give it a go. But I don't know how to do that. The editor does not seem to be able to load QB files, even after the game is finished.'

Re importing map to to the editor, just use the editor load function and pick a map from the 'Quick Battle Maps' folder. The map will load as a scenario. You can then buy core force units, edit them, save the file back to Quick Battle Maps folder, start a QB, set all the parameters as desired, load the map file (with edited core troops) and purchase TF troops according to the parameters you set.

[Robert Olesen]

OBJ, I want to generate a map using the QB editor, save it, load it in the editor, change stuff, save it, then import it into the QB generator.

I can't get the first part to work, not even when I move a QB saved file to the Quick Battle Maps folder.

[OBJ]

Rob-

Try going into the scenario editor map editor and hit the 'Generate Random Map' button, edit what you want, then save the file to the Quick Battle Maps folder.

Keep up the good work. Perhaps if enough of us express an interest in the campaign feature and can over come the realism questions BFC will change their minds.

[Kevin Kinscherf]

How many campaign rules set have been posted?

I only know of this one and Bitlongs.

Kevin

[Kevin Kinscherf]

I also want to say I marvel at the attention to detail and the quality of the douments provided.

I am not sure if this is for me but it must be great for those who dont 2-player. Bravo.

Kevin

PS Wish I thought of it myself!

[Robert Olesen]

Kevin, Thanks a lot

OBJ, I want to go the other way around. The scenario editor does not have a random setting for the map parameters. The QB generator does. I'd like to (re)use that randomness.

Perhaps I should clarify my intentions. I want to allow people to keep track of their core force using the editor. It allows you to track much more detail. To do this, you need to load the core force - with a map - into the QB you will be playing. The main problem is getting thap map set up. Thw QB generator provides me with a random map, but I can't find a way to import that into the editor. I don't really have the necessary info to duplicate that random map layout through die roll tables that are appropriate for all regions and all months from june 41 to may 45 ø that's why I'd like to reuse the randomness that is already coded into the QB generator.

Another way - which I have currently settled on - is to read off the map parameters from the random map made by the QB generator in the first - phony - QB (as well as possible, they are not available in text form anywhere) and reuse them to generate a map in the editor.

[ April 19, 2003, 09:51 AM: Message edited by: Robert Olesen ]

[OBJ]

Rob-

I'm afraid you're right. I don't know anyway to generate a 'random settings' map in the scenario editor either.

Incidentally, I've been using the 'Biltong Parameters 41 South' tool in MS Excel to generate map size and parameters. Then I load the closest matching BCR map pack map from the QB map folder into the editor, purchase and edit my core force and attached units, save this file to the QB map folder, then start the QB generator, set the QB battle parameters, and load the map file with troops, purchase TF units, deploy and play.

I've eliminated the extra QB generation step, but given up the computer generation of TF units. I decide what I want to buy within the parameter limits set by the QB. I mentally subtract my combined core and attached unit points from the QB battle total and only buy TF units up to that limit.

It eliminates a couple steps and some of the paper work, but gives the player more control over the TF units.

I'm one of those definitely hoping for a campaign feature in CMX2, maybe with historical higher unit selection (e.g. pick the actual division you want your core force to come from and follow through the war), historical operations from the selected unit's war history, leader potential, development, and succession, replacement, unit quality potential and growth to potential, replacements, equipment upgrades reflecting the selected unit's historical experience...anything I left out?

Keep up the good work.

[Robert Olesen]

Originally posted by OBJ:

Incidentally, I've been using the 'Biltong Parameters 41 South' tool in MS Excel to generate map size and parameters. Then I load the closest matching BCR map pack map from the QB map folder into the editor, purchase and edit my core force and attached units, save this file to the QB map folder, then start the QB generator, set the QB battle parameters, and load the map file with troops, purchase TF units, deploy and play.

I've eliminated the extra QB generation step, but given up the computer generation of TF units. I decide what I want to buy within the parameter limits set by the QB. I mentally subtract my combined core and attached unit points from the QB battle total and only buy TF units up to that limit.

I assume you're talking about BCR here? I wouldn't recommend eliminating the extra QB from ROQC.

I'm one of those definitely hoping for a campaign feature in CMX2, maybe with historical higher unit selection (e.g. pick the actual division you want your core force to come from and follow through the war), historical operations from the selected unit's war history, leader potential, development, and succession, replacement, unit quality potential and growth to potential, replacements, equipment upgrades reflecting the selected unit's historical experience...anything I left out?

Probably. Don't now what, though ....

And please excuse my ignorance, but what is CMX2? Not CMAK, I presume?

Keep up the good work.

Sure. Thanks.

[ April 19, 2003, 02:26 PM: Message edited by: Robert Olesen ]

[OBJ]

Rob-

You are correct. I was referring to BCR.

I plan to sit down with ROQC tonight.

CMX2 is apparently one of the ways to refer to the engine re-write.

[Robert Olesen]

Version 0.8 released. Get it here (same link as above )

Changes:

? Player Experience: You can now be demoted as well as promoted.

? Favor loss incorporated if you lose your CO

? Enemy ammunition (19/20): Attack modifiers added.

? Handicap die rolls (24) changed to decrease handicap slightly.

? Favor loss limited to -80 in a single battle.

? Optional Full Package rules added, i.e. rules for using the editor to track each unit in your core force in detail (for those that don't mind the workload).

Looking forward, I'm tempted to change direction somewhat. JasonC's reply to my question about logistics made me realize that, given the timescale I'm using, it might be better to eliminate most of the replacement rules and simply resupply everything. I'm all for simplicity if the focus of the campaign remains clear.

The quality of the replacements would still be an issue, so the focus would be on the quality of your force and on upgrading your equipment. You would need to keep your men alive to have experienced troops (replacements are usually worse than your own troops) and you would need to accumulate Favor to afford upgrades. I would then make kills and casualties by the core force more important in gaining favor, forcing you to into a choice between experience and favor.

I think this would give the campaign a clearer focus (and show more clearly that this campaign is emphasing the game aspect more the simulation aspect).

I'd like some comments if there's anybody out there who has an opinion on this, or even uses the thing

Is this a good way to go?

I would probably throw in a roll for ammo to add spice (more than to simulate real ammo supplies) and perhaps casualties as well, though it is tough to see half your core force disappear before it even enters the battle, and casualty handling also presents problems when you use the editor to track your core force.

[Lou2000]

Robert,

Let me start by saying sorry !

When I first saw these rules I thought ... Oh a BCR clone .... what's the point? and I moved on.

My fault for not reading the posts/site fully.

I have tried BCR twice now and there is just too much paperwork and too many battles to be able to do the whole of the war from Barbarossa to Berlin.

BCR's are an excellent job and the team involved have put in lots of hard work and I give them all due credit for it .... but the whole war will just take too long to play out and I lose interest !

Your ROQC rules look really good and more along the lines of something I'd use. I'm going to give them a try.

Though I'm sure these type of rules will always 'evolve' how close are they to a finnished, workable set ?

Would you (or others using them) class them as still being in a 'beta' stage much nearer completion ?

Have you any plans to produce a ROQC-CMAK version ? A campaign going from Op Torch right through North Africa and into Sicilly & Italy would be excellent !!! And should be easily achievable using your QC rules.

Damn .... with these rules, Nippys single player guide and my PBEMs I'll never get that garden grass cut

[Robert Olesen]

Originally posted by Lou2000:

Robert,

Let me start by saying sorry !

When I first saw these rules I thought ... Oh a BCR clone .... what's the point? and I moved on.

Those changes I proposed will actually differentiate ROQC more from BCR.

Your ROQC rules look really good and more along the lines of something I'd use. I'm going to give them a try.

Though I'm sure these type of rules will always 'evolve' how close are they to a finnished, workable set ?

Would you (or others using them) class them as still being in a 'beta' stage much nearer completion ?

The changes I'm proposing should produce v 0.9. I expect this ruleset to be final (as far as that is possible), and go into v1.0 after some usage/tuning - that is if they work out as intended.

Have you any plans to produce a ROQC-CMAK version ? A campaign going from Op Torch right through North Africa and into Sicilly & Italy would be excellent !!! And should be easily achievable using your QC rules.

Not at the moment. I'm not even sure when I will buy CMAK. I expect that CMBB will still have play value for me at the time CMAK is released. We'll see.

One of the god things about the changes I propose for v 0.9 is that it will make it a lot simpler to extend the rules to different nationalities and regions in CMBB and - I expect - port them to CMAK. That is because the number of tables that are specific to the region/nationality will be reduced a good deal. I will instead rely in the preprogrammed settings of CMBB to a larger extent.

Damn .... with these rules, Nippys single player guide and my PBEMs I'll never get that garden grass cut

You could hire someone to mow your lawn

[Lou2000]

Sounds great :cool:

I'm going to try the current version of the rules to generate some battles and get a feel for them.

I think I'll hold off on a full campaing until the Ver 1.0 get released as I dont want to change rulesets in mid campaign.

Thanks for the reply and keep up the good work

You could hire someone to mow your lawn

Actually I'm kinda hoping the wife just gets bored waiting for me to do it and does the job herself !

[DaffyDuck]

I think these changes sound pretty good. Supply issues can be roughly simulated with just ammo level. That makes for a good deal less bookkeeping. JasonC provided a lot of good information in his post (he always does). Maybe it can be used to fine tune ammo and quality modifiers for different dates.

I probably won't be able to playtest this campaign system any time soon, but I will try to crunch the numbers for a few battles and see how they look. That might help a little. I'll let you know what I think.