AAR: Winter Storm Tourney. Condor Vs Dalmatian

[Shaka of Carthage]

Iron Ranger

Here is my reasoning why the Russian units were "forward deployed".

Non-aggression pact was signed in Aug '39. Units from the Ukrainian district and Belorussian district (which became Fronts) were used to take over eastern Poland. The Poles resisted. Oct '39, the Baltic states were forced to sign a mutual assistance agreement with the Soviet Union. Six, seven months later they were given an ultimatum to join the Soviet Union. They resisted and troops were sent to enforce the ultimatum. June '40, Romania was pressured for Bessarabia(?) (ie modern day Moldova, I get confused what is was called back then). They didn't agree, so troops were sent to take the area by force.

So what you have, are Russian forces being used to occupy areas that the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact gave them. Most of those areas had to be invaded. Hence, supplies were pushed up front, to support the military units that were basically performing occupation duties.

I'm sure, that just like in Iraq, as the new "government" came into power, they used those troops to hunt down and eliminate any resistance.

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My statement that Stalin was not able to conduct any offensive actions was in reference to Germany and Russia being at peace with each other, due to the non-agression pact. And the post you wrote, that follows this one, basically says the same thing I did about Stalin conducting any "preventive" invasion against Germany.

Once the war started, the conditions that applied to the above were no longer valid.

"The German Army: 1933-1945"... If this is the same one I'm thinking about, yes, I read it a few years back.

[ January 21, 2004, 09:27 PM: Message edited by: Shaka of Carthage ]

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"From a historical side, I think the key is 'attack Hitler in the bum, during sealion'. Stalin had to know that if Germany could take down UK in a quick invasion (4-12 weeks) that Russia was doomed. Yes the Winter war was a disastor (unprepared/poor leadership) but attacking in 41 with UK still active (but unprepared) would be better then facing Nazi Eroupe all by your self in 42 or 43. Thats something even the Cazr's didn't have to face during during Napolians invasion."

Just to get this out, Stalin had zero plans to attack Germany (he was quoted many times saying the Hitler was the only man he could trust). He would never have attacked in 41, or 42. This is also partially because the Red Army was struggling to catch up on modern strategies, and was as well in the midst of reorganizing it's armoured forces and officer corps (wiped out in the purges of the 30's). The only possible scenario of Russian invasion of Axis territory was if Sealion was launched AND unsuccessful. Stalin was waiting to see the results of this, and honestly thought that German troop movements in East Poland were a prelude to SeaLion, ie he thought it was a ploy to throw the British off guard. And by the way, there are many books arguing that Sealion would have failed in any case, as the Kriegsmarine was greatly weakened by operations in Norway.