poots Posted July 24, 2003 Share Posted July 24, 2003 I am looking for a war game where I get to be in charge of everything. I would like to have control over economy, production, and strategy. However I want moree depth then Starcraft, but I dont want depth to the level where I have to know every single tanks gun caliber and top speed. Is this game a good fit? I also want to know what this games AI is like, is it great or satisfactory by your opinion? Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfstup Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 1st question- yes 2cd question- adequate,better than most and once you win over the computer with regularity you can play solitare by using the hotseat method by playing both sides to fine tune your game and to have some fun. as far as having control over several aspects of the war this game is a lot like the axis&allies(board game also a computer version) and also avalon hill's 3rd reich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CC Baxter Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 I am looking for a war game where I get to be in charge of everything. I would like to have control over economy, production, and strategy. However I want moree depth then Starcraft, but I dont want depth to the level where I have to know every single tanks gun caliber and top speed. Is this game a good fit? I also want to know what this games AI is like, is it great or satisfactory by your opinion? Thanks. You are pretty demanding! As far as I am aware StarCraft is an RTS and so is not comparable to SC in terms of game play. Obviously SC is modeled on World War II whilst StarCraft is B-Movie Sci-Fi. This game is 'a good fit', it's easy to learn but hard to master (I'm tired of hearing that phrase, but it's late and Mr Cliche just hoved into view....) The AI is acceptable and suits me just fine. I enjoy reading this board and have only recently begun to post despite lurking here since the beta demo became available to download. However I have not played TCP/IP nor PBEM and I think (judging by popular opinion) that this is where SC becomes an addiction and an all-time classic of PC grand strategy games. Check postings by Rambo et al for further information. The human v human game is a whole other facet of this game. If you want a truly global strategic experience then take a look at Hearts of Iron. Its massive in scope and execution but, in spite of repeated attempts to fall in love with it, the game for all it's depth and detail, just leaves me cold. Stick to SC, its cheap, user-friendly and with great re-playability: again check out other thread for the myraid 'gambits' and strategies favoured by the best players. Welcome to the board and to the game! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Hearts of Iron... the game for all it's depth and detail, just leaves me cold. Well said. Some guys eat this stuff up, like micromanaging research paths or figuring out which divisions to put into which corps. It is tedious work, and games should not be so much work. My first wargame many years ago was Tactics II for $5. My second game was Third Reich for $10. A relatively complicated game for a second choice, but it had EVERYTHING and could be played. As a WWII European Theater game, it had ground, air and naval action, and provided players the opportunity to try out various strategies (yes, even the "Dutch Gambit" was being played 25-30 years ago). The computer version was a disappointment, mainly due to AI problems. Other boardgames like World in Flames and War in Europe offered similar recreations of the great conflict, in more detail. There was a computer version of WIE, but without an AI. Computer WiF is in the works with a beta out, but again with no AI. With increasing complexity, a decent AI becomes harder and harder to implement. On the PC front, other DOS-based games like Axis and Allies (or Dogs of War), High Command, Clash of Steel and a couple of others offered various simulations of WWII. COS was probably the best of the lot, and many of its features appear in Strategic Command. When SC appeared a year ago, there was nothing out there for Windows. Hubert had been working on the game for about 2 years on his own, writing code and AI from scratch in Eiffel. Many, but not all, of the features from A&A and COS were implemented. Considering this was one guy's first computer game, what did get released and updated has been quite an accomplishment. Ideally, the game should have more, like a larger map and other enhancements. But the original code can only support so much, and Hubert's vision for his (and our) ideal game will just have to wait for SC2. However, SC right now is fully functional, fun to play, and provides the full spectrum of WWII grand strategy in the European Theater. Perhaps not as accurate or realistic as some folks would like to see, but nonetheless it plays very well. Here you have a game similar to Third Reich, but with a challenging AI, fog of war effects, HQ effects, research and some random poltical effects. A campaign game is playable within a reasonable period of time and, with various game settings, is exceptionally replayable. Hearts of Iron is a different game, strategic in scope but essentially operational. It has considerably more detail and complexity. SC is fast food; HOI is cuisine. It's a matter of taste and preference which you like best. I continue to learn how to play HOI and remain optimistic that someday I may have time to truly enjoy it and appreciate it. But IMHO SC is just more fun to play when I get the chance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KDG Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 What he just said..... SC has kept me from buying any other software in the last 6 months. Considering I used to buy something monthly, that says alot. One nice thing about the game is once you master the AI, you can play a mod that helps the AI, or you can start playing human oppenents. The choice is yours. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueristic Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by poots: I am looking for a war game where I get to be in charge of everything. I would like to have control over economy, production, and strategy. However I want moree depth then Starcraft, but I dont want depth to the level where I have to know every single tanks gun caliber and top speed. Is this game a good fit? I also want to know what this games AI is like, is it great or satisfactory by your opinion? Thanks. I would recommend to you the "Civilization" Series by Sid Mier. My personal favorite is Civ2 MPG. It can be had for $10.00 all over the place. There are fanatics about it all over the web and there is a room for it on microsofts zone as well as other places. If you want a Turn based European theatre Strategic Scale Wargame then SC has no equal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
poots Posted July 25, 2003 Author Share Posted July 25, 2003 cool, thanks for all the replies. I want to try the axis and allies board game, but havent met anyone who shares a similiar WW2 interest. So I stick to computer games for now. I have been playing the Beta for AC and its lots of fun, I ordered the game but it will take 2-4 weeks because I am from Canada :/ I have a question about the Axis and Allies computer game though. I heard it was the exact same as the board game, but the AI was very flawed. Does anyone know anything about that? Thanks again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jfstup Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 having played and liking this game very much, the weakest link in this game is the victory conditions which seem to be an afterthought after a well thought out game. no matter how well the allies play, the axis always gets a big lead by wiping out a lot of weak allied units(neutrals,french,and soviets) without taking almost any eliminations himself. worst yet, you get just as much reward for killing a corps as an army, tank, plane, or even a battleship! when playing a friend, we agreed to compare victory points at the end of each game with each of us getting to play the axis since the axis always seem to win in 1939 scenrio. i played the axis 1st and built 303 points. so he played the germans and after a slow start was threatning to reach my point level and i showed how i could disable all my remaining units and win because he wouldn;t have any more units to wipeout, thus no more victory points. i didn't this out of honour and he ended up with 296 pts. so we called it a draw. but inspite of this weakness it sure is a lot of fun which is the bottom line Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Logan Hartke Posted July 25, 2003 Share Posted July 25, 2003 Originally posted by poots: I have a question about the Axis and Allies computer game though. I heard it was the exact same as the board game, but the AI was very flawed. Does anyone know anything about that? Thanks again. I can tell you about the computer game since I own it. First of all, there are two versions, Axis & Allies and Axis & Allies: Iron Blitz. I like Iron Blitz a lot, but the old, regular version of the game is not worth getting. The bad news? Good luck finding the regular version let alone Iron Blitz. I've found one on ebay, it still has over a day left and is already selling for $109.50. The good news? It can be downloaded. Go to Google and type in... "axis allies iron blitz download", but don't use quotation marks. You should find a number of sites that you can download it from. I have cable internet and was able to download it and install it in the time it took me to write this post. Axis & Allies: Iron Blitz Advantages </font>It encompasses the entire world, not just Europe.</font></font>It allows a person to change unit attributes and costs. This feature is handy in representing the fact that it was harder and more expensive for Germany to build a battleship than the USA.</font></font>Allegiances can be changed with one click. That way, an alternate history where Russia and Germany ally can be done easily. Also, it's easier to do Cold War and WWI games with this option.</font></font>You can put as many units in one territory as you want. Want to defend Moscow with 5,628 infantry armies? By all means, go ahead.</font> Disadvantages </font>It deals with these huge, oddly shaped territories, which make as much sense as gerrymandered voting districts.</font></font>A person can lose his or her entire fleet based on wierd dice rolls. Example, it's not unusual for one fighter unit to destroy a battleship or 3-4 transports.</font></font>Strategic bombers are too powerful. Nuff said.</font></font>Unit sizes are too big. There is no damage or strength. You either have a unit or you don't. Strategic Command unit sizes are perfect, although I think that you should be able to stack two units in Strategic Command on one hex... but you can't.</font></font>It evolved from a board game, so AI is aweful and the gameplay is too simple for a computer game, especially when compared to Strategic Command.</font></font>It's much harder to modify the look of the game.</font></font>The game is REALLY buggy. (Although Iron Blitz is not half as buggy as the regular version)</font> Bugs... (a very small list) </font>Tanks can "hover" however many spaces over water they are allowed to move (default is two but you can change that) as long as they land in a transport.</font></font>Heavy bombers with the paratroop ability activated can carry two unit to an unoccupied enemy territory, drop one unit off, pick him back off the territory, (area is now yours) and fly home all in one turn. REALLY wierd.</font></font>AI is retarded at best.</font></font>There are more, but they aren't very problematic nor are they common.</font> I hope that helps, Logan Hartke Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted July 26, 2003 Share Posted July 26, 2003 FYI, Dogs of War is an Axis & Allies clone and is available for free download at the Underdogs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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