Shaka of Carthage Posted February 2, 2003 Share Posted February 2, 2003 As I stated during the SC Economic Analysis, I would like to offer a method for SC that would add more realism and playbility without adding complexity. Here it is. Current economic unit in SC is the MPP. Any change to that is a SC II discussion, not SC. But we do have two (2) things in SC that can enhance how we obtain and use our MPP's... mines and oil wells. I propose that we assign the Mines a "mineral" number and the Oil wells a "oil" number. Each MPP requires a certain number of "mineral" and "oil" points. Otherwise you have a shortage. Technically, any raw material resource you didn't use, should be stockpiled. And every nation tried to keep a reserve when the supply dried up. It would be nice to have that, but not necessary. Oil shortage would reduce your national supply level (reduce the capital supply, which would reduce everyone else?). Mineral shortage would reduce the number of MPP's you could use, though you could not be reduced lower than 50% (since there are other energy and mineral sources not represented on the map). UK losses at sea would be in oil and mineral points; Italy's production would be half what it is now, unless Germany helped out; Strategic bombing, thru reduction of a certain resource, would have an effect on the entire economy, etc. Damage to the mine/oil well would proportinally reduce the raw material points. 10 pt oil well bombed to 6 pts would have a 40% reduction in the oil points it produced. Still retain the 2x MPP feature we currently have, no reason to change it. Require one (1) mineral point for every three (3) MPP. Require one (1) oil point for every two (2) MPP. Hence, a 400 MPP economy would require 133 mineral points and 200 oil points. All of this would be transparant to us, so would not require any additional work for us (of course the software would have to be changed, though I have tried to keep the changes as simple as possible). Couple of points: Germany had the ability to create synthetic oil (from converting coal). This was expensive (about 4 to 5 times the cost of making from petroleum). So Germany should have some ability to "convert" the mineral points into oil points. Historically, the Romanian oil accounted for 45% of Germanies oil... the rest she produced herself. One of the Swedish mines should be "owned" by Germany. Over half of the Swedish ore was exported to Germany. Same is true of the Norweigan ore... but since it is only one mine, no easy way to reflect ... unless you start taking a portion of each mine / oil and giving it to the different alliances. Too much trouble. Spainish mine was split between the Allies and Axis. Both sides spent alot of time trying to reserve the resource for themselves. So maybe, we should allow Norway mine to go to the Axis, and Spanish mine stay neutral or go to Allies? Persian oil for all practical purposes should be in the Allies hands. Some was traded to Vichy France (Italy before that). As someone will notice, there are not enough resources to go around. Intentional, since I don't believe the German economy should be allowed to expand beyond three (3) times its initial size, unless she takes drastic measures to secure additional resources. Here are the values: Swedish mines: 80 each (there are two of them) German mine: 40 Romania oil: 55 each (there are two of them) Norway mine: 70 Spanish mine: 60 French mine: 70 Persian oil: 140 each (there are two of them) Canadian mine: 55 US mine: 800 each (there are two of them) US oil: 800 each (there are two of them) USSR mines: 25 each (there are seven of them) USSR oil: 125 each (there are four of them) UK Commonwealth: Canadian mines and US mines and oil (Atlantic Convoy); Persian oil (Med Convoy). USSR "lend-lease": would include around 70 oil points. Assuming the above is in place, we now have another item that we can implement... Motorized ground units, Air and Naval would consume oil points every turn. But there is one other thing I would like to propose regarding the units, so I'll cover that seperately. I hope the above is of some benefit. Thanks, Barry [ February 02, 2003, 05:01 PM: Message edited by: Shaka of Carthage ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 This idea of multiple resources puts us on the slippery slope of micromanagement. After a month, I am STILL trying to come to grips with this issue in HOI and not happy about it. At the grand strategy scale of SC, the abstract MPP works fine. IMHO, we should assume that resource management, world trades, and various infrastructure R&D is taking place in SC without the player having to be concerned with it. Yes, some key resources such as Swedish iron ore or Romanian oil could play a role in the game, but these could be event driven. Example, if the Allies capture the Romanian oil fields, then provide a 25% chance that German production is reduced to 80%. If this were to happen early in the war, then German pre-war stockpiles might or might not be sufficient to maintain production. If it happens later, then alternate supplies may or may not already be available through R&D efforts. So a random effect here might make sense. It's an idea. Either way, loss of a valuable resource will have an adverse effect over time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted February 3, 2003 Share Posted February 3, 2003 Micro-management or not it does look like the direction to move in. I think Germany got by during the war with less oil than Britain used in peacetime! Shaka Great Topic well presented. The whole idea as stated in the two postings by you and Bill looks good and also feasible. Great suggenstions. [ February 03, 2003, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shaka of Carthage Posted February 3, 2003 Author Share Posted February 3, 2003 Bill Macon Agree that we don't want to get so many resources out there that we have a micromanagement nightmare. But with a good design, I believe having two or three resources to manage would not be overwhelming. Using the above would not be too complicated. The Axis player can't grow beyond 350 or so MPP's without grabbing the Middle East or Russian oil. And Romania is stratgically imporatant, enough so that a smart Axis player will keep a air and ground units in permanent garrison there, to avoid any strikes from the Allies against the oil (like from Crete). And that does reflect the strategic issues the Germans were faced with. Allied player on the other hand, doesn't have to worry about oil. Its concerns are making sure the sea lanes stay open for the UK. And deciding if they should invest in Strategic Bombing, which by targeting the mines and/or oil wells can reduce the Germany economy (not to mention crippling the Italians). Abstract MPP's worked fine at one time. I think in todays world, we have enough computing power to come up with a design that in our case, should reflect the two (2) greatest shortages that the Axis faces... oil and manpower. Thanks, Barry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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