I/O Error Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Has any German player ever considered, or tried, invading the Baltic states before Russia annexes them? I have no idea what effect that would have on Russia's readiness later on, but I tested to see what happened if I attacked the place at the beginning of the game. Russian preparedness jumped from 30% to 64%. Not a small number, by any means! However, I'm curious as to whether anybody has really tried this in a game or if they think it might be a viable method of getting a jump start on the Russians and Operation Barbarossa. Russian readiness seems to jump again after the place falls, but maybe you could declare war on Russia in early 1940 and ignore France? Thoughts? This is just a harebrained scheme I "had" to share, just for kicks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Exactly the same thing occurs in COS! I wouldn't want to try it myself but would be very interested in the fate awaiting anyone who does. Actually, I don't think it would be too screwy against an AI, but a human would probably crash through the Low Countries and take advantage of Germany being stretched to the limit on two fronts. [ November 21, 2002, 04:01 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbor Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 I happened to test it the other day (0% +0). I attacked just after taking Poland, and the USSR entered the war 2 turns later. The readiness jumped immediately to high 80 something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HankWWIIOnline Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Yes I tried that against the computer a couple times. Basically, it's almost an impossible situation. You don't have much time to build up your forces to face Russia, as they annex the Baltic States pretty quickly. So what you are essentially doing is a "Russia First" strategy, where you only gain one city and port but lose so much in terms of MPP's and military strength. You'll be facing both Russia and France and won't have the MPP's to support it. Game over. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayJay_H Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 I hate that - you wanna reach out for Riga but have no chance to conquer without seeing the russians get into a tizzy; baltic states in Stratcomm are part of soviet empire right from the start, just pretending to be neutral first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
waltero Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 I had played a game where I destroyed all Polands units and left Warsaw alone. Russia never Annexed the baltic states. and After I delt with France I declared war on Boltic states and russia and took warsaw. The reason I left Warsaw alone was to prevent Russia from taking east poland. I am not sure it gave me a big advantage, and not sure why Russia never annexed the baltic states. But it might give you some ideas to work with. Have fun. Pardon my spelling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JayJay_H Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Originally posted by waltero: I had played a game where I destroyed all Polands units and left Warsaw alone. Russia never Annexed the baltic states. and After I delt with France I declared war on Boltic states and russia and took warsaw. The reason I left Warsaw alone was to prevent Russia from taking east polandNow, thats a fine idea! Gonna give it a trial Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Waltero -- agree with JayJay_H, will also try it. Makes sense why the program behaved the way it did, though historically the idea is hopeless! An incredible ruse to use against the AI! :eek: [ November 21, 2002, 04:53 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ev Posted November 21, 2002 Share Posted November 21, 2002 Originally posted by HankWWIIOnline: Yes I tried that against the computer a couple times. Basically, it's almost an impossible situation. You don't have much time to build up your forces to face Russia, as they annex the Baltic States pretty quickly. So what you are essentially doing is a "Russia First" strategy, where you only gain one city and port but lose so much in terms of MPP's and military strength. You'll be facing both Russia and France and won't have the MPP's to support it. Game over.Yes, absolutely right. But, what if you take France before the Soviets take the Baltic states. Against AI at Expert +0 I consistenty take France before Soviets take the Baltic States. I have heard other people in this site do this at more difficult levels. At this point, would you consider taking the Baltic States? Note this means immediate war with Russia since Russia is already around 70% ready to go to war... So you plunder the Baltic states and keep going for Leningrad. You could even have German subs and fleet ready to attack the Russian Navy or an Army ready to land near Lenningrad when Russia enters the war. Add good air support and plenty of luck and you could make a quick go for Leningrad that could be very interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 I had played a game where I destroyed all Polands units and left Warsaw alone. Russia never Annexed the baltic states. This one begs a question. Since the Nazi-Soviet Pact assumed a quick German conquest of Poland and subsequent division of that ill-fated country, wouldn't an obvious delay be viewed by Stalin as a material breach of contract? For one, Russian annexation of the Baltic States, and Eastern Poland for that matter, could occur independently of the results in Poland. Second, German failure to conquer Poland could be a factor for increased USSR readiness for war. Otherwise, this is one of those little loopholes in the game that leads to a rather ahistorical gamey strategy, as demonstrated. It should get fixed. Hopefully in a patch, but certainly for SC2. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Agreed with Bill -- definitely needs to be corrected; from an historical view it's impossible. It's only a game idea, which I think everyone realizes. Correcting it may not be too simple. How do you penalize someone for not finishing off a country he's already vanquished? It's similar to the major league baseball owners a hundred years back having to make a rule about stealing bases backwards. A player named Germany [ironically enough!] Shaeffer stole firstbase from second, then stole second on the next pitch and was credited with 2 Stolen Bases while going nowhere! [ November 22, 2002, 01:25 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pzgndr Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Correcting it may not be too simple. How do you penalize someone for not finishing off a country he's already vanquished? Probably not too difficult. If you have German units in east Poland now when Russia annexes it, those units are simply magic-moved west. That could happen anytime. Germany and Russia are effectively allies regarding Poland. Stalin delayed moving in until Warsaw was close to collapse to avoid irritating the west too much. He would not have delayed indefinitely. It's not that Germany is being penalized here; Russia is the one being ahistorically penalized. Recommend a 25% chance per turn for Russia annexing eastern Poland starting on the second turn, and automatic after Poland surrenders. And annexing the Baltic States should be independently determined, perhaps with an increased chance if Germany delays in Poland. Stalin would not stand idle while Germany flaunted their agreement and appeared weak. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted November 22, 2002 Share Posted November 22, 2002 Bill -- Sounds good. I'd even go for Russia annexing Eastern Poland automatically with the last polish unit's destruction. If Germany chooses not to take Warwaw for some reason, so be it. In COS, when a unit in a city was destroyed and enemy units were the only ones adjacent to it, that city was captured. Perhaps it had something to do with avoiding this sort of problem. [ November 22, 2002, 09:22 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jbor Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 I tested not conquering Poland yesterday, and while I do not remember the exact dates the USSR still took over the baltic states. While I had a lot of room in eastern Poland, it seemed that the zone of control was still in place - ie. don't place units there. I was slightly drunk when playing though, so don't trust my alledged experiences too much Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted November 23, 2002 Share Posted November 23, 2002 Jbor -- I was perfectly sober and accidentally moved a German corps through Warsaw, defeating my whole intention. Next time I'll compromise and have a few shots before playing! :eek: [ November 23, 2002, 08:16 AM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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