Fall Weiss and Fall Gelb

[Friedrich_der_2]

I love this game

But I really have problems to win as the axis in Fall Weiss. And I never take Norway. And the worst fact is that Russia attackes me in June 1940! That is way too early and I have no chance to survive long even with the MPPs from France.

When I start playing Fall Gelb it is much easier. Russia never attacks me before summer 1941. Until then I have France, Vichy, Spain, Protugal, Yugoslavia, Romania, Greek, Hungary and enough some troops in England sometimes I have London and Sweden. So I have enough MPPs and normally a full line of armys defending my country.

What is the secret when starting in 1939? I always have problems to take Norway so I concentrate to take Poland fast, then Denmark und the Lowlands. Sometime I attack Yugoslavia. I know it is important to be fast. But there are some French and English units with something different in mind

[JerseyJohn]

Sven1969

If you declare war on too many countries early in the game it could be backfiring on you. The best thing to do with Yugoslavia is wait till it coups. Normally Hungary, Romania and Bulgaria will become Axis allies. Then Yugoslavia has a psychotic episode and joins the allies without hope of success. If you invade it then you'll incur no diplomatic penalties and will get it's plunder, etc.. It needs to be garrisoned with a few scattered corps due to partisan activity.

Against the AI it's usually best to invade Denmark right after Poland. It's very easy and should fall in a single turn (bomb & shell Coppenhagen to zero, and occupy it with a Pnzr unit; keep two Pnzrs in range, that way if Copen' still has 1 or 2 stregnth it can be attacked by one pnzr and occutpied by the other.

Norway is a bit harder but if you have enough airfleets in Denmark and an HQ supplying them you'll usually grab Oslo quickly and you should use a second corps to occupy Bergen -- no point giving it away.

If you're declaring war on Yugoslavia, Denmark, Norway and Sweden, I guess it's possible that's why the USSR triggers so early.

"Of course I'm holding a machine gun -- Sven's on the loose!"

[ December 04, 2002, 07:06 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[windstarz]

From my experience attacking Yugo brings the Russians in earlier than if you wait for the coup. I usually take Poland, Denmark, Low Countries, France and then Sweden and Norway.

[Friedrich_der_2]

I am not declaring war against Sweden and the other countrys so early. After Poland I take Denmark and the Lowlands and sometime Yugoslavia. But perhaps I should wait until Yugoslavia joins the allies. I only declare war right in front of attacking a country. The difference between Fall Gelb and my game started in 1939 is only Yugoslavia and that I did not attacked Norway. Perhaps I had bad luck but Rusia always declared war in summer 1940.

But in reality Russia was not able to join the war in summer 1940 and why Stalin should join war in 1940 without beeing attacked?

I hope we will see a small diplomatic option in SC2

Normally Germany should do everything to get Spain, Italy, Turkey and the eastern European Countries to join the axis as early as possible. And I never saw Spain or Turkey joining the Axis.

[Wachtmeister]

The minor country conquest sequence outlined by others above can be expected to keep Russia out of the war well into 1941.

In addition to the above, attacks on Greece will increase Russian war readiness quite a bit, especially if you have also invaded Yugoslavia before the Allied coup. If you have invaded England, and London is seriously threatened, or seized, there will be big increase in the USSR DOW percentage, along with the USA. If Spain joins the Axis, I have seen the USSR usually prepare for war in a turn or two.

Another factor is the German Deployment on the Russo/Polish border. German Forces in this area should be neither too weak, nor overwhelmingly strong. If you have virtually nothing opposite Russia, apparently the AI sees an opportunity to grab some of your territory. On the other hand, if the Germans quickly deploy the majority of their strength near the Russian border the USSR feels "threatened", and ramps up its war readiness.

Using these approaches, I have found that the Russian DOW is generally delayed until at least June '41 and sometimes until Oct. '41.

Finally, it is useful to note how much each German DOW on minors inceases the USSR [and USA] DOW percentage after you hit the "update" button on the war map screen. I have also learned the hard way to check war map screen at the beginning every turn. Watch for both one time increases in DOW percenatge and for the amount of change in DOW readiness, per turn. A minor country invasion, or force deployment that Russia finds threatening often results in a event triggered increase in war readiness, followed by a greater per turn increase thereafter.

[pzgndr]

Another factor is the German Deployment on the Russo/Polish border. German Forces in this area should be neither too weak, nor overwhelmingly strong. If you have virtually nothing opposite Russia, apparently the AI sees an opportunity to grab some of your territory.

This is correct. Leave at least a corps or two in Poland. I generally have no problem taking Poland, Denmark, Norway, and Low Countries by May 40 and France by July. Leave Yugoslavia alone until either a coup or you're prepared to attack USSR. Attacking Sweden irritates both the US and Finland, so is generally not worth the effort. If you generally follow the historical timetable, leave sufficient garrisons in Poland, and don't declare war on Yugoslavia, USSR doesn't prepare for war until mid-late 1941.

Key to taking Denmark is a tank and HQ op moved from Poland on turn 2 and a corps embarked on transports to occupy Copenhagen. Hit it with tanks, then air and fleets, and move in the corps all in a single turn.

Key to Norway is hitting Oslo with 2 armies from Poland plus some air support to eliminate the defenders. Land either another corps or HQ SW of the port to gain control of the port hex and then transport in another corps to occupy Oslo. This can all be done in a single turn after taking Denmark and moving at least an air fleet within range of Oslo. If you move fast enough, those armies can be redeployed back to Germany by April/May and available to continue fighting.

The British fleet is generally off hunting u-boats during the early game, so Germany can gain and maintain air and naval superiority long enough to support an early invasion of Norway. The additional MPPs from plunder and experience gained generally offsets the 2-3 turn delay prior to hitting the Low Countries and France. If France is dug in and playing tough, with or without taking the Low Countries, it may take until August, but usually falls regardless as long as German attacks are smart and deliberate and you don't take unnecessary losses.

If Germany waits to attack Norway later, Britain can be ready with a corps/army adjacent to Bergen and ready to move in when Norway is attacked. British air and naval superiority could make that a tough fight, so beware. Despite the variations you can take as Axis, at least convince yourself that the historical Fall Weiss campaign is achievable and that you can roughly recreate the Fall Gelb starting situation. It is possible.

[Bullwinkle]

I think that all of this depends upon what settings you are using when playing against the AI.

I play the Axis at 0% and the Allies (AI) at +2. I find that this provides a challenging game - the outcome of which usually depends upon when Russia & the US enter the fray.

Under these settings I find that I have to hit France first, not Poland. If I go for France after Poland, I'm usually defeated as Britain lands its corps plus a Canadian army to help the French.

After declaring war on the Low Countries and then taking France first, I go for Denmark afterwards while marching back to Poland. After taking Poland the time is usually ripe for Yugoslavia to act up and this is where the timing of the Russian entry becomes crucial. If I can get a good attack going on Yugoslavia before Russia comes in, I'll generally win the war but if Russia comes in sooner, it is usually lost - especially if the US comes in before Dec. '41.

Any settings more challenging, say Axis at Expert with Allies at +2 is a sure win for the Allies.

Try these settings and see how you fare.