Glitches or me?

[jaym]

Some bugs as I see them:

1. Turns: aren't we supposed to have a turn every month? It seems to me that in the winter I will have a turn on December 13, the allies will have one on January 10, and then I have one on February 7. Perhaps this is what is meant as 1 turn/month.

2. Do you think that the British Navy would have scrapped their fleet as oppossed to turning it over to the U.S.? I don't really know but it might have been an option.

3. And to beat an old horse, the Finnish Army is still on par with say the Rumanians while being greatly inferior to the Italians! Can we change this with the editor?

4. Suprise contact with subs: when an Allied vessle bumps into my subs, as often as not I come out losing (playing on intermediate setting).

5. And what about Guderain as a leader option?

Otherwise this is a great game that consumes tons of my time. The AI is also the best I've ever seen in a WWII stratagy game. Great job!

[ July 31, 2002, 01:29 PM: Message edited by: jaym ]

[Compassion]

Originally posted by jaym:

Some bugs as I see them:

1. Turns: aren't we supposed to have a turn every month? It seems to me that in the winter I will have a turn on December 13, the allies will have one on January 10, and then I have one on February 7. Perhaps this is what is meant as 1 turn/month.

This is not a bug. Seeing your turn 28 days after the previous one during the winter sounds right.

Also, turn length is dependant upon season, so some turns are only 1 week in length and some 2.

2. Do you think that the British Navy would have scrapped their fleet as oppossed to turning it over to the U.S.? I don't really know but it might have been an option.

I think it's probable that the fleet would have gone with the Royals to Canada and from there to other interests in the world... I do not think that they would be under any but the loosest control by the US (as parts of a task force, perhaps, but the ships would have kept their crew, I would think).

3. And to beat an old horse, the Finnish Army is still on par with say the Rumanians while being greatly inferior to the Italians! Can we change this with the editor?

WOUld assume that the editor would allwo you to adjust the size of an army. As to qualtiy? Perhaps Hubert or Super Ted can answer that one.

4. Suprise contact with subs: when an Allied vessle bumps into my subs, as often as not I come out losing (playing on intermediate setting).

DOn't loose sight of the fact that you are not seeing *A* vessel whan you see a ship, even a named ship, but rather the capital ship in the center of a task force. So when you see a nice fat carrier or Battlewagon stuble into your wolfpack, remember that there are probably a few destroyers, frigates and cruisers to conduct ASW ops.

5. And what about Guderain as a leader option?

Otherwise this is a great game that consumes tons of my time. The AI is also the best I've ever seen in a WWII stratagy game. Great job!

Achtung Panzer was widely influential, but Guderian wasn't until later (and not as a leader of men). He never made Fieldmarshal so shouldn't be included in the game. In fact, he was releived of command of Panzer-Army 2 by von Kluge in Russia. That army was the biggest unit he commanded, so not being listed as an HQ in the game is quite correct.

Since he worked with Speer to increase Panzer production after losing his command, I guess you could dedicate one of your industrial tech points to him...

[ July 31, 2002, 09:33 PM: Message edited by: Compassion ]

[jaym]

Thanks for the insite Compassion.

So it sounds right if I have a turn every 2 months? Also, I wasn't refering to size of army, rather quality. And true, I should view this as a battle fleet running into a wolfpack - bad but worse for the subs irregardless (although in 1940?). If I'm not mistaken, Guderain was part of chief of staff a little after he was recalled from the Russian front - many others were taken from chief of staff position and given army groups to command - as a more competent (and omnipitent in hindsite) leader, I would have placed him in charge of troops (well, if there wasn't a production post for him).

[Compassion]

Originally posted by jaym:

Thanks for the insite Compassion.

So it sounds right if I have a turn every 2 months?

yipes... sorry. I misread that point. No, you should take a turn every 28 days in winter, you're right on that one... Unfortunately, I do not see this when playing solo and didn't pay attention during the beta demo when playing pbem (though the total number of turns felt right).

Also, I wasn't refering to size of army, rather quality.

Perhaps that can be adjusted by agreement by the combatants. You're right, you would assume a level of experience for the Finns in 41

If I'm not mistaken, Guderain was part of chief of staff a little after he was recalled from the Russian front

A year and a half, I think.... Wasn't he releived in late 41 after getting stuck in the russian winter? He didn't get his job rebuilding the Panzerwaffe until march '43... and then spent lots of time argueing with Hitler until he finally got fired again in early '45.

- many others were taken from chief of staff position and given army groups to command - as a more competent (and omnipitent in hindsite) leader, I would have placed him in charge of troops (well, if there wasn't a production post for him).

Supposedly he and Speer did wonders for German armor production and modernization, so he was probably well used in his position. But I would agree with you. Sure would be nice if he could get a command.

[pzgndr]

In fact, he was relieved of command of Panzer-Army 2 by von Kluge in Russia

Ah, but what-if? It's well within the realm of possibility in this *game* that Guderian could rise to HQ leader status and perhaps relieved of command later. The Rommel HQ can be purchased well before he became a Field Marshall - commanding 15 and 21 Pz with only 4 tank battalions (plus lots of other stuff.) So where's the balance there?

We should be wary of hardwiring too much into the game based on what actually happened in WWII rather than what *could* have happened. On the other thread about German HQs, I suggested some sort of random HQ reorganization, where leaders could be killed or relieved and replaced by another from the force pool. (The exact reasons why are irrelevant.) Otherwise, we won't see things like Rommel's removal from play, Patton's relief and subsequent reassignment, or Manstein's permanent retirement. These things really happened, so having them as random events to deal with should be worth considering as an advanced game or optional feature. :cool:

[Compassion]

Originally posted by Bill Macon:

We should be wary of hardwiring too much into the game based on what actually happened in WWII rather than what *could* have happened

Excellent point. THough it might be a little hard to know where to stop... But I guess having the leaders become available who were at least Colonel-Generals (for the Germans) for promotion (by paying for a new HQ) to Field Marshal would add a bit of extra flavoring...