SeaWolf_48 Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 I don't know how to be humble about this subject. I've been playing war games since AH D-Day in the mid 60's. There are some things that shouldn't change even with the computer age with war game educate, if there is such a thing. I think that we should respect and build on the people and games that went before. Avalon Hill, SPI, and other board games were the model that started war games (not minitures)as we know them today. Concider, the hex map, land, sea, and air units (counters), movement rules, Resource points, etc. all started more than forty years ago. So my point is! 10 comments. 1) You should not be able to create new units next to enemy units. In friendly Depots only. 2) Enemy zone of control? Should being next to an enemy unit slow you down, effect supplies, limit reinforcement size, cause starvation of units if completely surrounded? Passed games had these rules. 3) How about building forts, bases, ports, airbases? 4) Each nation should have a limit to the number of units that it could build. Military books show limits. 5) It takes time to build units, major warships it took two years to build, paratroops (where are they) took two years to train. This makes the gamers plan ahead, no instant panzers, poof! 6) Loaning MPP's to your allies, Italy lived on german steel, coal, and food; not to mention Britian, could they have survived without US food, tanks, weapons, trucks, ammo, ships, etc. 7) How about adding the Murmansk convoy, suppling Russia was one of the Allies biggest challenges. Ivans lived on k rations, and drove duce and a half trucks all the way to Berlin. 8) Iceland is missing, this Island helped stop the submarine challange. Canada and the US are to close to Europe 9) Where are the winter rules, General Mud, Johanne freezing in Mother Russia during 1941/42 winter, makes me cold just thinking about it! 10) How about Spy's, the codes being broke, Enigma made Brittan much stonger, because they could concentrate there limited resources at vital points. You have partisans, but they get to strong, this would make the fog of war more interesting. I love this game, it has one of the best AI opponents that I,ve ever played against, and the over all concept of this game is entertaining. The map is funky but I'm sure that it will get better. I hope you get the jest of this memo. Devoted Gamer of SC. SeaWolf P.S. How about a spell check on this site! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 SeaWolf_48 Excellent list. Most of it has been suggested in the hundreds of forums that have been posted earlier. For example, regarding Iceland (and Greenland), the Murmansk convoys etc., please backtrack to a much earlier forum called Hubert -- the North Atlantic! originated by yours truly. It would be good if you added some of your ideas in a posting to the North Atlantic forum as the whole thing would become current once more and there would be revived interest in this and the dozens of entries made by various players on related issues. Of course, it's almost impossible to backtrack through the old forums to see what's already been written. It's an odd situation. Organizing all the material so far posted would be a Herculean task and I don't know who would, could or should do it! It seems frustrating that we all keep reinventing the wheel. I'm sure if I go back far enough I'll find the same ideas I thought I'd introduced originally mentioned twenty pages earlier! So I figure one answer is to mention the earlier forums I know of whenever similar material arises again. I think if we keep reinforcing the old forums in addition to posting new ones we'll preserve all the related ideas and come up with better final suggestions. Otherwise it's a matter of always posting things only to see them gradually drop down the list and become forgotten. The same idea appears later on and is doomed to the same fate! In any case, you've posted great points and I hope they're elaborated upon and taken into consideration for future revisions. [ December 19, 2002, 02:18 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueristic Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 I've been playing Since the 70's Not quite as long as u but i'm pretty well Versed in The wargameing tradition. Been to my share of Con's and done my time. So in Rebuttle this is my Opinion on these Subjests. 1) You should not be able to create new units next to enemy units. In friendly Depots only.I agree 2) Enemy zone of control? Should being next to an enemy unit slow you down, effect supplies, limit reinforcement size, cause starvation of units if completely surrounded? Passed games had these rules.I agree...But i thought this game does those things? 3) How about building forts, bases, ports, airbases?Why? How long is take to build a port anyway? Can a CB unit Do it? Yes fortifications Would be nice. Airbase add Supply and AD would be nice CB's could do this. Bases? Again Could Mobil Engineers perform this Dureing a war period on contested soil? If any of these were implemented they would have to encompase a time span (Damn I'd Be pissed if Someone plopped Down a Bunker in front of My assault! LMAO AND Dureing that time period that are could not be traversed by other units(unless penalties were implimented) And enemy activity would have to be kept at bay. Then u have the issues of bombing these Projects And you are getting into another Whole design faze for a already created game. Would be nice to see in a sequel. 4) Each nation should have a limit to the number of units that it could build. Military books show limits.I Agree The amount of supply should be tallied and any units created beyond that limit would penalize the entire supply system. But then again u would have to Have a system for "Mothballing" Or Supply control. Unit Atrition would be a factor. I would have no problem with this also being in a sequel BUT I would recommend it be an option and also That it be simple to use(maybe rightclick on unit to change supply rate) Or AI controlled as defeult. MICROMANAGING SUX ASS IN TCPIP PLAY . Hope i made that point clear to all. 5) It takes time to build units, major warships it took two years to build, paratroops (where are they) took two years to train. This makes the gamers plan ahead, no instant panzers, poof!TRUE but i'm not sure that could be implimented either in the framework of this game. That would be an interesting MOD though! Would it work? Would the Germans Over extend themselfs? Would the allies be able to halt thier progress without units? Man those nuetral county units would be important to axis! SOUND like a great MOD! I'd love to see it played out. HINT 6) Loaning MPP's to your allies, Italy lived on german steel, coal, and food; not to mention Britian, could they have survived without US food, tanks, weapons, trucks, ammo, ships, etc.Yes with a Cost prob based on country distance maybe with Wolfpack Effects(as a modifier) 7) How about adding the Murmansk convoy, suppling Russia was one of the Allies biggest challenges. Ivans lived on k rations, and drove duce and a half trucks all the way to Berlin.YESYES U got suez. 8) Iceland is missing, this Island helped stop the submarine challange. Canada and the US are to close to EuropeI agree 9) Where are the winter rules, General Mud, Johanne freezing in Mother Russia during 1941/42 winter, makes me cold just thinking about it!Slow movement and lower supply in winter? Sure I'm Game. 10) How about Spy's, the codes being broke, Enigma made Brittan much stonger, because they could concentrate there limited resources at vital points. You have partisans, but they get to strong, this would make the fog of war more interesting.Thats 2 things 10 and 11 10 How about Spy's That would be like MAGIC right. Nah Maybe in sequel add cryptology tech. and algorimth for advanced knowledge. But Cannot just give it to the allies. There are no japs in this theatre! 11.partisans YES they should be invisible maybe until attacked. but if not used in attacks they could cut supply lines I LIKE that IDEA! I love this game, it has one of the best AI opponents that I,ve ever played against, and the over all concept of this game is entertaining. The map is funky but I'm sure that it will get better. I WholeHeartedly Agree I hope you get the jest of this memoYes not ALL Games Can Be aLL Things. Unless u meant "Jist" But i prefer Jest Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Hueristic Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 I Agree Jersy This forum Is bulging at the seams. It needs some serious Reorginization. Maybe U are the man for the job? From what i've Seen u have a pretty Analiticle mind And lots of time Aside from being a nazi Lol Just ribbin ya man Definialty need spell checker cause i don't waste time if ur so anal u pipe on someones Mispellings when u get the point then UR too anal For me too bother with. Course i think a spell checker prob changed Seawolfs Post "War games educate" and made for an interesting change. lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerseyJohn Posted December 19, 2002 Share Posted December 19, 2002 Hueristic -- "Agree Jersy This forum Is bulging at the seams. It needs some serious Reorginization. Maybe U are the man for the job? From what i've Seen u have a pretty Analiticle mind And lots of time Aside from being a nazi Lol Just ribbin ya man " Beneath that pleasant exterior resides a cruel saddist -- what'd I ever do to you! Aside from which, your very insideous thought is exactly why I wrote the following advance disclaimer -- "and I don't know who would, could or should do it! [ December 19, 2002, 02:28 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ] Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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