Spain and Turkey

[Urko]

There are two countries, (Spain and Turkey) allies of Germany, Spain has got a capital, 2 cities in the peninsula, one mine, one city in the south, the posibility of Gibraltar and Portugal conquer and frontier with Algeria and France; Turkey has got a capital, two cities, a port, the Bosforous control and frontier with Sirya, Iraq, Rusia, Greece and Bulgaria. Every this is ok but...There are not battles usually on them so I think there are some forms of conquering them.

Spain.

Atlantic:

Spain can be attacked with a fast unloading next to Lisbone and the an advance to Madrid

France:

This is the worst frontier to attack it because there are mountains and Spanish armies next to Bilbao but there is free way to Madrid after destroy Bilbao's armies.

Mediterranean sea:

Assult on Valencia.

Turkey:

Istambul:

Low advance destroying the fortified troops in Istambul

Sirya:

Free way to the capital

Iraq:

The same

Russia:

A low attack between turkish cities and mountains with bad supplies.

Black sea:

A fast unloading next to Ankara

Mediterranean sea:

A unloading next to Ankara

If there are more suggests about Spain and Turkey, say them.

[Luke]

Is it possible to make Turkey to join Axis?

Spain generally joins Axis after successful landing in Great Britain, usually after taking London.

How about Turkey?

[Urko]

Turkey joined me last time after Russia, Greece and Vichy France surrendered, I don't remember if Iraq was conquered.

Luke, when you want we can play a game.

[ March 09, 2003, 11:57 AM: Message edited by: Urko ]

[JerseyJohn]

If you guys are interested you ought to experiment with the scenario editor. Call up Hubert's 1939 file, rename it as Spain, Turkey, whatever . . . assign the affected countries to their new sides and go at it. After playing the game through 1941 you should have a good idea how this affects things.

I've experimented extensively in this area with homemade scenarios. As a cautionary note I'd say make sure you balance things out or you're heading for a very one sided game.

Turkey, Spain, Sweden and Iraq. are all countries that radically alter the balance of power, especially in 1939. My latest experiment, which has arroused some interest, puts Sweden in the Axis and Iraq, Ireland, Portugal with the Allies. If interested go to the Sweden in Axis Forum originated by Shaka of Carthage.

Link to Shaka's Forum, Sweden as Axis Nation

[ March 09, 2003, 02:16 PM: Message edited by: JerseyJohn ]

[Edwin P.]

Re: Turkey

Quite often I will invade Turkey from the Mediterrean. I will land troops to the south of their capital and march overland. It usually falls in three turns.

The result is plunder and many options for future attacks - Russia via Transports, Russia via the Southern Mountains, Iraq and Vichy.

PS: I also invade Switzerland for a one time gain of 260-280MPP (no cities). The Swiss normally fall in two turns, although they start with entrenchment level 4.

[santabear]

If the Axis can get Italy going early enough, the Italians can invade Turkey as Edwin suggests; amphib over from Grece (or up from Alexandria) and attack Ankara through the mountains.

HQs for supply are essential, and tanks help a lot (better movement). The Germans can thump away at Istanbul to keep those forces busy.

There are HUGE advantages to the Axis gaining control of Turkey:

1. Sail the Italian fleet into the Black Sea and the Russian cruiser dies rapidly. Then the RUSSIANS have to worry every time the get near the sea.

2. The Italians can walk from Turkey into southern Russia. This is where most of Russia's MPPs come from and it's often weakly defended. You can run Ivan out of MPPs quickly down here.

3. Also as Edwin suggests, a landing south of Rostov to encircle that city can work wonders as well.

Sometimes this strategy is possible, sometimes not, depending on how the Italians fare early in the war.

Outside of Gibralter (which is important), an invasion of Spain doesn't seem to pay the same dividends to the Axis to me. But perhaps someone has found differently.

[Urko]

Mmm, I surprised when I saw replies in this forum, It passed to the history more than one month ago...

[Edwin P.]

I agree with Santabear's comments that invading Spain does not offer the same strategic advantages as an invasion of Turkey.

Perhaps if the battle for the Atlantic was of greater importance Spain would hold more importance for the Axis. Moreover, invading Spain gives the USA another front to attack. Without the presence of Spanish forces to stop them Germany would be forced to divert a sizable number of units from other fronts leaving them much weakened.

What could increase the importance of Spain?

1st. Add a convoy route from the South Atlantic to the UK reflecting shipments from South Africa and Latin America. About 5MPP per turn.

2nd. Increase the value of this route to 15MPP per turn six turns after Egypt or Gibralter falls to the Axis. This would reflect the fact that merchant ships traveling through the Suez would travel a longer route around Africa.

3rd. I would also consider adding 5MPP to the convoy routes through the Mediterrean due to the shorter route. This would increase the importance of Egypt/Spain to the Allies and Axis powers.

[ April 15, 2003, 07:05 PM: Message edited by: Edwin P. ]

[Wachtmeister]

Spain is actually a fairly good deal for the Axis - decent MPP's, and once Gibraltar falls, the North African ports and cities go up in value from 5 to 8 or 10. Also, an attack on Spain does not raise the USSR DOW readiness nearly as much as an attack on Turkey.